5 ms·

This organization catching on is the best chance the US has at passing comprehensive gun control.

by spamizbad 7y ago

JorgeGT 7y ago
The NRA did support gun control legislation after the Black Panthers started to openly carry guns, didn't they?
- derg 7y ago
  Yep. Reagan passed it while Governor of California for instance.
  - masonic 7y ago
    ... he signed it after it passed the Democrat-controlled Assembly and the Democrat-controlled Senate, both with 2/3 majorities.
- oxide 7y ago
  That's hilariously hypocritical. I'd bet the NRA would like it if people simply forgot about that.
  - krapp 7y ago
    The NRA is a political organization and they know their audience.
- masonic 7y ago
  Only the Mulford Act, which was specific to open carry of loaded firearms
partiallypro 7y ago
Socialist in the title means immediate death of the organization from having any traction (meaning there will be no backlash.) Also EveryTown is already a very very large organization counter to the NRA. The NRA is powerful not because of its donations, it rarely ever does that...it's because a lot of people own and like guns. Until people come to grips with that, we'll never have real reform.
- jMyles 7y ago
  > Also EveryTown is already a very very large organization. Is it? I have never once met anyone involved in it. > The NRA is powerful not because of its donations, it rarely ever does that...it's because a lot of people own and like guns. I think it's fair to say that a lot of gun-owners despise the NRA. Selecting Olly North as a figurehead is not a way to please a libertarian-leaning constituency.
  - flyingfences 7y ago
    > Is it? I have never once met anyone involved in it. "Large" in terms of astroturf funding, they mean.
  - Rebelgecko 7y ago
    >Is it? I have never once met anyone involved in it. Their website claims they have more than 6 million supporters, although I suppose that could include things like Facebook likes and change.org petition signers. I'd suspect that their funding is a bit less grassroots than the NRA's (since so much comes from Bloomberg) but I haven't really looked into it. However Everytown is drastically outspending the NRA in terms of campaign contributions, and looks on track to outspend them overall in the next year or two.
    - jMyles 7y ago
      I have met people involved in the NRA, GOA, and NAAGA just going about my routine - people at the grocery store, lyft drivers, sitting next to me on the plane, etc. If I see someone wearing a baseball cap or t-shirt of a political organization, I always ask about their involvement, and in several cases, people wearing a logo of these three organizations has turned out to be a fairly committed activist. But of the two people I have seen wearing Everytown apparel, neither were involved in any material way. I suspect that it is a tiny organization with a large budget.
- gremlinsinc 7y ago
  Why is that? Socialism is on the rise, and a very popular sentiment. Most people maybe are confused about what it entails on both sides of the argument - Most on the right think socialists want cold-war-era USSR-like government. Most on the left including self-described socialists just want social democracy and not true marxist socialism. There are some though who are devout marxists, which has never actually been put 100% into action. Most socialistic attempts have turned into dictator rule. I'm not an expert on the subject, I just know every argument about socialism spends half the time trying to nail down what socialism is, and then the other half is back and forth about how many people have died under one or the other when there's really no way to quantify it because fuck tons of people have died under socialistic and capitalistic regimes (including the U.S.A -- victims of globalization and war profiteering, poverty, even school shootings because of a lack of medical and mental health accessibility). But my main point was that word no-longer elicits fear, and contempt like it once did, and for many in America it elicits hope - because capitalism has failed them, so socialism couldn't be worse. So, for some they won't join because of it - for others they will join just because it's a socialist promoting org. After all Bernie Sanders is one of the most popular politicians, definitely the most successful progressive/left-leaning politician we've ever seen (since FDR), and he gladly wears the title socialist, though I'm pretty sure he means democratic socialist not full socialism as well. <end rant>
emilfihlman 7y ago
What kind of gun control should there be?
- panarky 7y ago
  1) Nobody can own a gun until they complete 40 hours of training in usage, safe handling, safe storage, tactics and law, and demonstrate proficiency in each area to an impartial test proctor. 2) Each weapon purchased must include a certificate of insurance that will reimburse $10,000,000 to any innocent individual harmed by that weapon. 3) No restrictions on cosmetic appearance of weapons, as long as personal firearms are incapable of firing more than 10 rounds in 20 seconds.
  - flyingfences 7y ago
    1) That's a blatant violation of the Constitution of these United States. 2) Any bolt-action rifle is capable of firing 10 rounds in 20 seconds. Any revolver is capable of firing 10 rounds in 20 seconds. A single-shot long gun is capable of firing 10 rounds in 20 seconds.
    - tlb 7y ago
      1) States today require a written proficiency exam. (At least, California does). I don’t see the argument for why any reasonable level of making sure people know how to use their guns properly is unconstitutional.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - Rebelgecko 7y ago
        Things like large license fees and mandatory expensive classes will disproportionately impact poor people and minorities. Not everyone gets a week of paid vacation so that they can take a class. Some would argue that this is by design. It actually reminds me a lot of voter ID laws (and imagine if you had to pay $400 and spend 40 hours studying your voter guide to vote in an election!). Regardless, it's not clear to me that this 40 hour class would be the best way to save lives. Accidental gun deaths have already been rapidly decreasing for decades. Assuming the classes were equally effective, you'd save an order of magnitude more people by requiring someone to take a 40 hour swimming class before setting foot in a pool.
rtkwe 7y ago
Yeah, that last time the US got major changes in gun laws that stuck was when the Black Panthers and some other civil rights groups started getting serious about getting guns in the hands of southern African-Americans for self defense. > [NRA President David] Keene points to an ugly truth about American history: Gun control has historically been used for racist purposes. > And the NRA’s president should know: His organization was intimately involved in this history, promoting gun control laws that were tainted with racism. See how fast law enforcement starts worrying about armed militia groups again if they start including left-wing ideology not just white supremacist/separatist credos. [0] https://newrepublic.com/article/112322/gun-control-racist https://newrepublic.com/article/112322/gun-control-racist

This organization catching on is the best chance the US has at passing comprehensive gun control.

JorgeGT 7y ago

The NRA did support gun control legislation after the Black Panthers started to openly carry guns, didn't they?

derg 7y ago
Yep. Reagan passed it while Governor of California for instance.
- masonic 7y ago
  ... he signed it after it passed the Democrat-controlled Assembly and the Democrat-controlled Senate, both with 2/3 majorities.
oxide 7y ago
That's hilariously hypocritical. I'd bet the NRA would like it if people simply forgot about that.
- krapp 7y ago
  The NRA is a political organization and they know their audience.
masonic 7y ago
Only the Mulford Act, which was specific to open carry of loaded firearms

partiallypro 7y ago

Socialist in the title means immediate death of the organization from having any traction (meaning there will be no backlash.) Also EveryTown is already a very very large organization counter to the NRA. The NRA is powerful not because of its donations, it rarely ever does that...it's because a lot of people own and like guns. Until people come to grips with that, we'll never have real reform.

jMyles 7y ago
> Also EveryTown is already a very very large organization. Is it? I have never once met anyone involved in it. > The NRA is powerful not because of its donations, it rarely ever does that...it's because a lot of people own and like guns. I think it's fair to say that a lot of gun-owners despise the NRA. Selecting Olly North as a figurehead is not a way to please a libertarian-leaning constituency.
- flyingfences 7y ago
  > Is it? I have never once met anyone involved in it. "Large" in terms of astroturf funding, they mean.
- Rebelgecko 7y ago
  >Is it? I have never once met anyone involved in it. Their website claims they have more than 6 million supporters, although I suppose that could include things like Facebook likes and change.org petition signers. I'd suspect that their funding is a bit less grassroots than the NRA's (since so much comes from Bloomberg) but I haven't really looked into it. However Everytown is drastically outspending the NRA in terms of campaign contributions, and looks on track to outspend them overall in the next year or two.
  - jMyles 7y ago
    I have met people involved in the NRA, GOA, and NAAGA just going about my routine - people at the grocery store, lyft drivers, sitting next to me on the plane, etc. If I see someone wearing a baseball cap or t-shirt of a political organization, I always ask about their involvement, and in several cases, people wearing a logo of these three organizations has turned out to be a fairly committed activist. But of the two people I have seen wearing Everytown apparel, neither were involved in any material way. I suspect that it is a tiny organization with a large budget.
gremlinsinc 7y ago
Why is that? Socialism is on the rise, and a very popular sentiment. Most people maybe are confused about what it entails on both sides of the argument - Most on the right think socialists want cold-war-era USSR-like government. Most on the left including self-described socialists just want social democracy and not true marxist socialism. There are some though who are devout marxists, which has never actually been put 100% into action. Most socialistic attempts have turned into dictator rule. I'm not an expert on the subject, I just know every argument about socialism spends half the time trying to nail down what socialism is, and then the other half is back and forth about how many people have died under one or the other when there's really no way to quantify it because fuck tons of people have died under socialistic and capitalistic regimes (including the U.S.A -- victims of globalization and war profiteering, poverty, even school shootings because of a lack of medical and mental health accessibility). But my main point was that word no-longer elicits fear, and contempt like it once did, and for many in America it elicits hope - because capitalism has failed them, so socialism couldn't be worse. So, for some they won't join because of it - for others they will join just because it's a socialist promoting org. After all Bernie Sanders is one of the most popular politicians, definitely the most successful progressive/left-leaning politician we've ever seen (since FDR), and he gladly wears the title socialist, though I'm pretty sure he means democratic socialist not full socialism as well. <end rant>

emilfihlman 7y ago

What kind of gun control should there be?

panarky 7y ago
1) Nobody can own a gun until they complete 40 hours of training in usage, safe handling, safe storage, tactics and law, and demonstrate proficiency in each area to an impartial test proctor. 2) Each weapon purchased must include a certificate of insurance that will reimburse $10,000,000 to any innocent individual harmed by that weapon. 3) No restrictions on cosmetic appearance of weapons, as long as personal firearms are incapable of firing more than 10 rounds in 20 seconds.
- flyingfences 7y ago
  1) That's a blatant violation of the Constitution of these United States. 2) Any bolt-action rifle is capable of firing 10 rounds in 20 seconds. Any revolver is capable of firing 10 rounds in 20 seconds. A single-shot long gun is capable of firing 10 rounds in 20 seconds.
  - tlb 7y ago
    1) States today require a written proficiency exam. (At least, California does). I don’t see the argument for why any reasonable level of making sure people know how to use their guns properly is unconstitutional.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - Rebelgecko 7y ago
      Things like large license fees and mandatory expensive classes will disproportionately impact poor people and minorities. Not everyone gets a week of paid vacation so that they can take a class. Some would argue that this is by design. It actually reminds me a lot of voter ID laws (and imagine if you had to pay $400 and spend 40 hours studying your voter guide to vote in an election!). Regardless, it's not clear to me that this 40 hour class would be the best way to save lives. Accidental gun deaths have already been rapidly decreasing for decades. Assuming the classes were equally effective, you'd save an order of magnitude more people by requiring someone to take a 40 hour swimming class before setting foot in a pool.

rtkwe 7y ago

Yeah, that last time the US got major changes in gun laws that stuck was when the Black Panthers and some other civil rights groups started getting serious about getting guns in the hands of southern African-Americans for self defense. > [NRA President David] Keene points to an ugly truth about American history: Gun control has historically been used for racist purposes. > And the NRA’s president should know: His organization was intimately involved in this history, promoting gun control laws that were tainted with racism. See how fast law enforcement starts worrying about armed militia groups again if they start including left-wing ideology not just white supremacist/separatist credos. [0] https://newrepublic.com/article/112322/gun-control-racist https://newrepublic.com/article/112322/gun-control-racist