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I've never particularly wanted to travel to China. After seeing what the CCP has done, I have no desire to ever travel to China. However, after seeing the way t

I've never particularly wanted to travel to China. After seeing what the CCP has done, I have no desire to ever travel to China. However, after seeing the way the Hong Kong citizens behaved and placed such a high value on freedom of speech I truly hope to visit someday. Only on the condition that HK gets full autonomy. Hows that for PR

crimsonalucard 7y ago
China is one of the greatest phenomenons of human history. Never has a country build itself into a super power in so little time. To have such a one sided view of the world and not visit China is not a detriment to China, but to yourself. That being said. There is no doubt that Freedom of speech is important... but the truth is more complicated than that. China does not have freedom of speech but in a way neither does the US. We have freedoms in the United States... but did edward snowden have freedom? Additionally in all of Asia, it's a well known fact that the protests were highly likely to be ignited by the CIA. How come you don't see fair and balanced reports of this policy in the United States? Most people here in the US aren't even discussing this possibility. Make no mistake, the united states isn't the land of the free... It's just another regime.... A regime that like China has remarkable economic success, culture and important values that is worth visiting and living in despite its glaring flaws. I urge you to visit China and not have such a one sided view of the country not because I want to promote China to be better. But because I want to promote you and the people of the united states to be better. We are better when we work together. Also please note that China does not need you to visit the country. China's manufacturing prowess is so high that even a trade war can't stop it from being the center of the manufacturing world. The technology is so great that the US simply does not have the infrastructure to replicate it. Like it or not, even if you don't visit China, you still have to use the products that China made for you because you as a country do not have the technical ability to manufacture the same products. Just like how the slaughter of millions of people by the nuclear bomb dropped on hiroshima by the united states does not define the united states as a country, neither do the protests of hong kong define China.
- johnfactorial 7y ago
  Your post is unabashed propaganda, full of false dichotomies, whataboutism, and false equivalence, with no love of truth. > China does not have freedom of speech but in a way neither does the US. A radical and undefended claim. In what way is this true? You never say. > did edward snowden have freedom? Yes he did. Then he broke the law and ran away from the consequences of his actions. > It's just another regime. A single-party regime with no term limits on executive power is a stark contrast with a representative democratic federation designed with a multitude of checks and balances on its own power structures. > you still have to use the products that China made for you because you as a country do not have the technical ability to manufacture the same products False choice between Chinese products & domestic. No reasonable person believes that China is the sole manufacturing presence on Earth. There are a multitude of other options. China, however, does need the US -- the largest free market on the planet. > Just like how the slaughter of millions of people by the nuclear bomb dropped on hiroshima by the united states does not define the united states as a country, neither do the protests of hong kong define China. Those two things are indeed important, defining characteristics of the two countries you describe. One of them was an act of world war decades ago. The other is current events, the result of an illegal act of oppression by a dystopian communist state, heavily indicative of what China is today.
  - crimsonalucard 7y ago
    >Your post is unabashed propaganda Right and the government is paying me to say this on HN of all places. >A radical and undefended claim. In what way is this true? You never say. I thought this was obvious. Snowden did not have freedom of speech to reveal that the government was spying on its own citizens. You do not have the freedom of speech to threaten others. You do not have the freedom of speech to lie and slander about someone, it is literally in the law and people can sue you for this. Literally the law in the united states controls your speech using the justification of "security." China uses the exact same excuse. Is it a valid excuse? in both cases, I'm not sure. Definitely the US is more lax on these laws then China overall, but the atrocities done by the US on snowden is only one aspect of a country and it does not define the entire regime or its people. >A single-party regime with no term limits on executive power is a stark contrast with a representative democratic federation designed with a multitude of checks and balances on its own power structures. Right, vs. a government where people in power can (and are regularly) bribed with corporate money. Checks and balances in the united states is a check written as a bribe with a balance of over a million. >Those two things are indeed important, defining characteristics of the two countries you describe. One of them was an act of world war decades ago. The other is current events, the result of an illegal act of oppression by a dystopian communist state, heavily indicative of what China is today. Yeah the wholesale slaughter of millions of innocent civilians during wartime is excused with a couple of decades vs. a fucking protest happening right now can't be excused and must be used to define an entire nation and its people. That's not the point. The point, is the united states was never defined entirely by the bomb. You still are a country separate in culture and identity from a nuclear bomb or imperfections within the government. China is largely the same thing. However because they are economic rivals with the US the media largely magnifies the things they do. You really need to go and live their to see that it's not as horrible as the media makes it out to be. The LGBT person above feared for his life. That's next level brain washing right there.
powerapple 7y ago
Why not trying to see what's going on in China and how this evil come to place? If you only visit places where people are thinking in your way ....

crimsonalucard 7y ago

China is one of the greatest phenomenons of human history. Never has a country build itself into a super power in so little time. To have such a one sided view of the world and not visit China is not a detriment to China, but to yourself. That being said. There is no doubt that Freedom of speech is important... but the truth is more complicated than that. China does not have freedom of speech but in a way neither does the US. We have freedoms in the United States... but did edward snowden have freedom? Additionally in all of Asia, it's a well known fact that the protests were highly likely to be ignited by the CIA. How come you don't see fair and balanced reports of this policy in the United States? Most people here in the US aren't even discussing this possibility. Make no mistake, the united states isn't the land of the free... It's just another regime.... A regime that like China has remarkable economic success, culture and important values that is worth visiting and living in despite its glaring flaws. I urge you to visit China and not have such a one sided view of the country not because I want to promote China to be better. But because I want to promote you and the people of the united states to be better. We are better when we work together. Also please note that China does not need you to visit the country. China's manufacturing prowess is so high that even a trade war can't stop it from being the center of the manufacturing world. The technology is so great that the US simply does not have the infrastructure to replicate it. Like it or not, even if you don't visit China, you still have to use the products that China made for you because you as a country do not have the technical ability to manufacture the same products. Just like how the slaughter of millions of people by the nuclear bomb dropped on hiroshima by the united states does not define the united states as a country, neither do the protests of hong kong define China.

johnfactorial 7y ago
Your post is unabashed propaganda, full of false dichotomies, whataboutism, and false equivalence, with no love of truth. > China does not have freedom of speech but in a way neither does the US. A radical and undefended claim. In what way is this true? You never say. > did edward snowden have freedom? Yes he did. Then he broke the law and ran away from the consequences of his actions. > It's just another regime. A single-party regime with no term limits on executive power is a stark contrast with a representative democratic federation designed with a multitude of checks and balances on its own power structures. > you still have to use the products that China made for you because you as a country do not have the technical ability to manufacture the same products False choice between Chinese products & domestic. No reasonable person believes that China is the sole manufacturing presence on Earth. There are a multitude of other options. China, however, does need the US -- the largest free market on the planet. > Just like how the slaughter of millions of people by the nuclear bomb dropped on hiroshima by the united states does not define the united states as a country, neither do the protests of hong kong define China. Those two things are indeed important, defining characteristics of the two countries you describe. One of them was an act of world war decades ago. The other is current events, the result of an illegal act of oppression by a dystopian communist state, heavily indicative of what China is today.
- crimsonalucard 7y ago
  >Your post is unabashed propaganda Right and the government is paying me to say this on HN of all places. >A radical and undefended claim. In what way is this true? You never say. I thought this was obvious. Snowden did not have freedom of speech to reveal that the government was spying on its own citizens. You do not have the freedom of speech to threaten others. You do not have the freedom of speech to lie and slander about someone, it is literally in the law and people can sue you for this. Literally the law in the united states controls your speech using the justification of "security." China uses the exact same excuse. Is it a valid excuse? in both cases, I'm not sure. Definitely the US is more lax on these laws then China overall, but the atrocities done by the US on snowden is only one aspect of a country and it does not define the entire regime or its people. >A single-party regime with no term limits on executive power is a stark contrast with a representative democratic federation designed with a multitude of checks and balances on its own power structures. Right, vs. a government where people in power can (and are regularly) bribed with corporate money. Checks and balances in the united states is a check written as a bribe with a balance of over a million. >Those two things are indeed important, defining characteristics of the two countries you describe. One of them was an act of world war decades ago. The other is current events, the result of an illegal act of oppression by a dystopian communist state, heavily indicative of what China is today. Yeah the wholesale slaughter of millions of innocent civilians during wartime is excused with a couple of decades vs. a fucking protest happening right now can't be excused and must be used to define an entire nation and its people. That's not the point. The point, is the united states was never defined entirely by the bomb. You still are a country separate in culture and identity from a nuclear bomb or imperfections within the government. China is largely the same thing. However because they are economic rivals with the US the media largely magnifies the things they do. You really need to go and live their to see that it's not as horrible as the media makes it out to be. The LGBT person above feared for his life. That's next level brain washing right there.

powerapple 7y ago

Why not trying to see what's going on in China and how this evil come to place? If you only visit places where people are thinking in your way ....