5 ms·

Regus has more locations, owns the buildings instead of subleasing them, is profitable, and is valued at 3.6B. 15B would be not be a sane valuation for Wework e

by opencl 7y ago

Regus has more locations, owns the buildings instead of subleasing them, is profitable, and is valued at 3.6B. 15B would be not be a sane valuation for Wework even if they weren't bleeding money at an alarming rate.

tlb 7y ago
Regus offices are soulless. If you try to run a startup out of one, you'll have a harder time hiring and everyone will want to go home at 5 pm. The amazing thing about WeWork is that the offices are fun. The one I know in SF is an OK place to hang out in the evening. So I disagree it's just a brand. WeWork's product is better. Maybe other temporary office companies will figure out how to make their offices fun, but I sort of doubt it. Companies rarely learn how to be more fun if they didn't start off that way. If WeWork is the only fun office space, they'll be hugely profitable someday.
- rsanheim 7y ago
  > everyone will want to go home at 5 pm. You say that like it is a bad thing.
  - singingboyo 7y ago
    Like it or not, from a company owner's perspective, it is. Also, it's not like a soulless or poorly configured office has negative effects only after 5pm. I know someone who's in a WeWork office temporarily - they love it, because the old space was poorly configured and amplified stress. Go figure, they've also mentioned they feel more productive and are getting more done. But they're not they're any longer than they were before.
    - Nursie 7y ago
      Actually a company owner with a brain doesn't want their people to burn out, so limits late nights and overtime.
- travem 7y ago
  > If WeWork is the only fun office space, they'll be hugely profitable someday. The competitive moat of being fun is built on huge subsidies of cheap capital being injected into the company during funding. It's a great venue because the costs are being subsidized by Softbank. Absent that subsidy they would be losing even more money than they already have and would either have to raise costs or lower quality.
- logfromblammo 7y ago
  This may be a generational thing, but I prefer my workplaces to be for work, and my playgrounds to be for play, without blurring the lines between them. Leaving work at 5 pm is the goal. Clock out. Go. Be free. If I want a social club, it will be a separate organization. People staying at the office after hours is indicative of a toxic work culture (unless those folks always come in just as late on the other end of the workday). An effort to design a workplace as having the appearance of fun strikes me as disingenuous, at best, and at worst is a signal that the company is, as David Brent put it, "'aving a larf", at the expense of the investors. Do not make your offices fun. Levity and gravitas can co-exist, but at work, the latter should have the greater weight.
  - paulmooreparks 7y ago
    I've upvoted more comments (including this one) among these responses than I have for the entire year previously. I think this goes to part of what creeps me out about WeWork, generally.
    - burpsnard 7y ago
      I suspect they are selling to founders who are rich enough that they want to startup mostly for the social interaction
- Spooky23 7y ago
  There’s a reason why every landlord is an asshole. It’s a cutthroat business all about minimizing costs. Fun is fickle, expensive and requires ongoing investment. It’s leaving money on the table, which is why few people do it.
- dmitrygr 7y ago
  > Regus offices are soulless > everyone will want to go home at 5 pm . > WeWork is that the offices are fun. > is an OK place to hang out in the evening. That is because outside of SV, work is where you work, not "hang out in the evening". And that is a good thing. Work-life balance is important for long term health
- untog 7y ago
  > The amazing thing about WeWork is that the offices are fun. The one I know in SF is an OK place to hang out in the evening. I've worked in a few WeWorks in NYC and I can emphatically say that is not the case in any of them. I don't doubt what you're saying, but that you're overestimating WeWork's product consistency. Most of my WeWork experiences have been more or less as soulless as a Regus office, only with "Hustle Hard" and "Always crunching" LED signs on the walls (I don't think those are the actual phrases but the real ones are so vacuous that I can't even remember them). On the plus side, their free coffee is excellent. (even all this aside, if your office space is so fun that people don't want to leave it then I'm afraid your employees probably aren't all that productive. It is not a good thing to optimize for and if WeWork did they'd be turning off potential customers that live outside the SV bubble)
  - redisman 7y ago
    If you pay a monthly premium rent, the coffee ain't free. I've been at a WeWork and a smaller coworking space in Seattle and couldn't really tell which one had a multi billion dollar evaluation.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- singingboyo 7y ago
  Everyone is going after the 'go home at 5 pm' part, but missing the point. The moment HN hears about people staying past 5, everyone is up in arms, but... what if I'm staying past 5 so I can leave earlier the next day? Or past 5 for a week to get something done on time, and then taking off early for the next week when there's less to do? Personally, I'd prefer to do that in a nice office. It works for me, and for the company! Even just in general. The effects of an office are far more than just 'do people stay past 5'. Even within a strict 9-5 work period, there is a huge amount of variance. If the office is depressing and soulless, it will have knock on effects on productivity and employee happiness. Again, good for the employees and the company. But no, according to these comments an office people stay at longer is always evil.
  - untog 7y ago
    > But no, according to these comments an office people stay at longer is always evil. You're projecting here. No-one is suggesting that being in the office at 5:01pm is a capital offence, but that workplaces with a consistent expectancy that you stay late (something many of us have an experience of) are a bad thing.
- rongenre 7y ago
  Supercool offices are a negative signal when I'm interviewing. I need fewer distractions when I'm trying to get work done.
- kjs3 7y ago
  Regus offices are soulless. Well...they're (in my experience using them in the SE US) generic, quiet, generally well run. So, about as soulless as any office. Which was pretty much what I want. WeWork's product is better. Excepting Regus being profitable, having a better financial structure and management that's not a liability. But I understand that's not the only measure of 'better'. The one I know in SF is an OK place to hang out in the evening. I can't imagine anything I'd less like to do after work than hanging out drinking beer with a couple of dudebros with nowhere else to go after work than...work. If WeWork is the only fun office space, they'll be hugely profitable someday. I'm certain there's a market for work-space-as-life-substitute, but my own equally unsubstantiated feeling is that when people look for "workplace" they have one thing in mind, and when they think "fun", they're looking for something very, very different. At least for me, I don't want to try and work someplace where other people think it's for fun; fun is distracting.
  - theK 7y ago
    It seems that in the last batches of adults we got there has been a growing minority that doesn’t subscribe to the „go home at 5“ mentality. From personal experience WeWork type locations are an excellent thing for such people whereas anything focused and tied to classical careerism just doesn’t work for them. I also think this is cool. People in these places (not necessarily only WeWork) seem to be often interested in finding true purpose through work. It is a nice idea. Work, like sleep, is a large part of our life. Might as well be fulfilling in itself not by side effect.
    - dclusin 7y ago
      It's a false dilemma to assert that only people who work excessively find purpose in work. Plenty of people at large companies enjoy and value their jobs. They just make reasonable delivery schedules and go home to their families at 5PM.
    - kjs3 7y ago
      I don't disagree completely, and I acknoeledge there's a need for something like what WeWork pitches, but I would make a couple of points: - I guess I'm from a previous batch of adults. The idea that we all have a "go home at 5" mentality is a fallacy. I don't check out promptly at 5 (or any other time) every day. None of my employees do. Very few people I know do (and the ones that do aren't in technology). Maybe there's that impression because we've got enough experience to have realized that "you are your work" is not the better alternative it's sometimes presented to be. - Conversely, I think the issue with "the last batch of adults" is that they have been feed the idea of "don't go home at 5" as an ideal, even a requirement, and saying "I have a life outside of work that I want to maintain" is what people who don't have what it takes to succeed say. Sure...there's Jack Ma, but Jeff Bezos has breakfast with his kids every day and Larry Ellison still ditches Oracle to go sailing. - Work, like sleep, is a large part of our life. Might as well be fulfilling in itself not by side effect. Work can (and should be) fulfilling. Work does not have to be the totality of fulfillment in life. If it is for you, mazel tov; but it's not a moral failing to say "nope".
- scarface74 7y ago
  The amazing thing about WeWork is that the offices are fun. The one I know in SF is an OK place to hang out in the evening. This sounds like my worse nightmare. Fake “fun” at work. I don’t go to work to have fun. I go to work to get a paycheck. And for startups inducing “fun” is just another way to get young gullible employees to work crazy hours for less than the market rate and the promise of equity that statistically won’t be worth anything.
  - croh 7y ago
    > This sounds like my worse nightmare. Fake “fun” at work. I don’t go to work to have fun. I go to work to get a paycheck. Well said. I can understand "fun after work" (which I don't want as I prefer to go home). But what this all rant about "fun at work" ? all valley cult. Remember 'enjoying work', 'good work environment' are completely different than 'fun at work'.
- goatinaboat 7y ago
  WeWork is that the offices are fun. The one I know in SF is an OK place to hang out in the evening. This is so SV. In the real world CEOs aren’t so into paying a premium so that their employees can chug “free” brewskis at work. Going home at 5 and coming in at 9 is the norm.
- manigandham 7y ago
  As a startup founder/CEO, I want my employees to come in, work hard, and then go home. Professionalism and separation are important to a work environment. It creates balance and a better culture with more productivity and satisfaction for everyone involved, especially those with families and other commitments that take up their evenings. An office that's also a personal hangout is blurring the lines and always leads to problems.
- sseveran 7y ago
  I am not sure the product is really any better. There are a bunch of cute little old things around the printer, they have cool signs and I don't mind the fruit water. There are some other goods things like being able to build a virtual network of devices and things like that, which would be much more problematic without a single provider. But I would settle for wifi that always works (been working on this in our own little corner of WeWork for a couple of weeks) and coffee that was ready before 9. It would be great if we could just scan our badge at the printer. I feel like they provide insufficient attention to the basics and really focus on what they think provides differentiation. Maybe in a year I will think differently but if I had to pick a different office space today I don't think I would be any more likely to rent a WeWork given their brand.
- myspy 7y ago
  What's wrong with going home at 5pm? Ever heard of work-life balance? Your start-up won't run better when you run everyone into the ground. Build sustainable businesses over shattering yourself.

by opencl 7y ago

tlb 7y ago

Regus offices are soulless. If you try to run a startup out of one, you'll have a harder time hiring and everyone will want to go home at 5 pm. The amazing thing about WeWork is that the offices are fun. The one I know in SF is an OK place to hang out in the evening. So I disagree it's just a brand. WeWork's product is better. Maybe other temporary office companies will figure out how to make their offices fun, but I sort of doubt it. Companies rarely learn how to be more fun if they didn't start off that way. If WeWork is the only fun office space, they'll be hugely profitable someday.

rsanheim 7y ago
> everyone will want to go home at 5 pm. You say that like it is a bad thing.
- singingboyo 7y ago
  Like it or not, from a company owner's perspective, it is. Also, it's not like a soulless or poorly configured office has negative effects only after 5pm. I know someone who's in a WeWork office temporarily - they love it, because the old space was poorly configured and amplified stress. Go figure, they've also mentioned they feel more productive and are getting more done. But they're not they're any longer than they were before.
  - Nursie 7y ago
    Actually a company owner with a brain doesn't want their people to burn out, so limits late nights and overtime.
travem 7y ago
> If WeWork is the only fun office space, they'll be hugely profitable someday. The competitive moat of being fun is built on huge subsidies of cheap capital being injected into the company during funding. It's a great venue because the costs are being subsidized by Softbank. Absent that subsidy they would be losing even more money than they already have and would either have to raise costs or lower quality.
logfromblammo 7y ago
This may be a generational thing, but I prefer my workplaces to be for work, and my playgrounds to be for play, without blurring the lines between them. Leaving work at 5 pm is the goal. Clock out. Go. Be free. If I want a social club, it will be a separate organization. People staying at the office after hours is indicative of a toxic work culture (unless those folks always come in just as late on the other end of the workday). An effort to design a workplace as having the appearance of fun strikes me as disingenuous, at best, and at worst is a signal that the company is, as David Brent put it, "'aving a larf", at the expense of the investors. Do not make your offices fun. Levity and gravitas can co-exist, but at work, the latter should have the greater weight.
- paulmooreparks 7y ago
  I've upvoted more comments (including this one) among these responses than I have for the entire year previously. I think this goes to part of what creeps me out about WeWork, generally.
  - burpsnard 7y ago
    I suspect they are selling to founders who are rich enough that they want to startup mostly for the social interaction
Spooky23 7y ago
There’s a reason why every landlord is an asshole. It’s a cutthroat business all about minimizing costs. Fun is fickle, expensive and requires ongoing investment. It’s leaving money on the table, which is why few people do it.
dmitrygr 7y ago
> Regus offices are soulless > everyone will want to go home at 5 pm . > WeWork is that the offices are fun. > is an OK place to hang out in the evening. That is because outside of SV, work is where you work, not "hang out in the evening". And that is a good thing. Work-life balance is important for long term health
untog 7y ago
> The amazing thing about WeWork is that the offices are fun. The one I know in SF is an OK place to hang out in the evening. I've worked in a few WeWorks in NYC and I can emphatically say that is not the case in any of them. I don't doubt what you're saying, but that you're overestimating WeWork's product consistency. Most of my WeWork experiences have been more or less as soulless as a Regus office, only with "Hustle Hard" and "Always crunching" LED signs on the walls (I don't think those are the actual phrases but the real ones are so vacuous that I can't even remember them). On the plus side, their free coffee is excellent. (even all this aside, if your office space is so fun that people don't want to leave it then I'm afraid your employees probably aren't all that productive. It is not a good thing to optimize for and if WeWork did they'd be turning off potential customers that live outside the SV bubble)
- redisman 7y ago
  If you pay a monthly premium rent, the coffee ain't free. I've been at a WeWork and a smaller coworking space in Seattle and couldn't really tell which one had a multi billion dollar evaluation.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
singingboyo 7y ago
Everyone is going after the 'go home at 5 pm' part, but missing the point. The moment HN hears about people staying past 5, everyone is up in arms, but... what if I'm staying past 5 so I can leave earlier the next day? Or past 5 for a week to get something done on time, and then taking off early for the next week when there's less to do? Personally, I'd prefer to do that in a nice office. It works for me, and for the company! Even just in general. The effects of an office are far more than just 'do people stay past 5'. Even within a strict 9-5 work period, there is a huge amount of variance. If the office is depressing and soulless, it will have knock on effects on productivity and employee happiness. Again, good for the employees and the company. But no, according to these comments an office people stay at longer is always evil.
- untog 7y ago
  > But no, according to these comments an office people stay at longer is always evil. You're projecting here. No-one is suggesting that being in the office at 5:01pm is a capital offence, but that workplaces with a consistent expectancy that you stay late (something many of us have an experience of) are a bad thing.
rongenre 7y ago
Supercool offices are a negative signal when I'm interviewing. I need fewer distractions when I'm trying to get work done.
kjs3 7y ago
Regus offices are soulless. Well...they're (in my experience using them in the SE US) generic, quiet, generally well run. So, about as soulless as any office. Which was pretty much what I want. WeWork's product is better. Excepting Regus being profitable, having a better financial structure and management that's not a liability. But I understand that's not the only measure of 'better'. The one I know in SF is an OK place to hang out in the evening. I can't imagine anything I'd less like to do after work than hanging out drinking beer with a couple of dudebros with nowhere else to go after work than...work. If WeWork is the only fun office space, they'll be hugely profitable someday. I'm certain there's a market for work-space-as-life-substitute, but my own equally unsubstantiated feeling is that when people look for "workplace" they have one thing in mind, and when they think "fun", they're looking for something very, very different. At least for me, I don't want to try and work someplace where other people think it's for fun; fun is distracting.
- theK 7y ago
  It seems that in the last batches of adults we got there has been a growing minority that doesn’t subscribe to the „go home at 5“ mentality. From personal experience WeWork type locations are an excellent thing for such people whereas anything focused and tied to classical careerism just doesn’t work for them. I also think this is cool. People in these places (not necessarily only WeWork) seem to be often interested in finding true purpose through work. It is a nice idea. Work, like sleep, is a large part of our life. Might as well be fulfilling in itself not by side effect.
  - dclusin 7y ago
    It's a false dilemma to assert that only people who work excessively find purpose in work. Plenty of people at large companies enjoy and value their jobs. They just make reasonable delivery schedules and go home to their families at 5PM.
  - kjs3 7y ago
    I don't disagree completely, and I acknoeledge there's a need for something like what WeWork pitches, but I would make a couple of points: - I guess I'm from a previous batch of adults. The idea that we all have a "go home at 5" mentality is a fallacy. I don't check out promptly at 5 (or any other time) every day. None of my employees do. Very few people I know do (and the ones that do aren't in technology). Maybe there's that impression because we've got enough experience to have realized that "you are your work" is not the better alternative it's sometimes presented to be. - Conversely, I think the issue with "the last batch of adults" is that they have been feed the idea of "don't go home at 5" as an ideal, even a requirement, and saying "I have a life outside of work that I want to maintain" is what people who don't have what it takes to succeed say. Sure...there's Jack Ma, but Jeff Bezos has breakfast with his kids every day and Larry Ellison still ditches Oracle to go sailing. - Work, like sleep, is a large part of our life. Might as well be fulfilling in itself not by side effect. Work can (and should be) fulfilling. Work does not have to be the totality of fulfillment in life. If it is for you, mazel tov; but it's not a moral failing to say "nope".
scarface74 7y ago
The amazing thing about WeWork is that the offices are fun. The one I know in SF is an OK place to hang out in the evening. This sounds like my worse nightmare. Fake “fun” at work. I don’t go to work to have fun. I go to work to get a paycheck. And for startups inducing “fun” is just another way to get young gullible employees to work crazy hours for less than the market rate and the promise of equity that statistically won’t be worth anything.
- croh 7y ago
  > This sounds like my worse nightmare. Fake “fun” at work. I don’t go to work to have fun. I go to work to get a paycheck. Well said. I can understand "fun after work" (which I don't want as I prefer to go home). But what this all rant about "fun at work" ? all valley cult. Remember 'enjoying work', 'good work environment' are completely different than 'fun at work'.
goatinaboat 7y ago
WeWork is that the offices are fun. The one I know in SF is an OK place to hang out in the evening. This is so SV. In the real world CEOs aren’t so into paying a premium so that their employees can chug “free” brewskis at work. Going home at 5 and coming in at 9 is the norm.
manigandham 7y ago
As a startup founder/CEO, I want my employees to come in, work hard, and then go home. Professionalism and separation are important to a work environment. It creates balance and a better culture with more productivity and satisfaction for everyone involved, especially those with families and other commitments that take up their evenings. An office that's also a personal hangout is blurring the lines and always leads to problems.
sseveran 7y ago
I am not sure the product is really any better. There are a bunch of cute little old things around the printer, they have cool signs and I don't mind the fruit water. There are some other goods things like being able to build a virtual network of devices and things like that, which would be much more problematic without a single provider. But I would settle for wifi that always works (been working on this in our own little corner of WeWork for a couple of weeks) and coffee that was ready before 9. It would be great if we could just scan our badge at the printer. I feel like they provide insufficient attention to the basics and really focus on what they think provides differentiation. Maybe in a year I will think differently but if I had to pick a different office space today I don't think I would be any more likely to rent a WeWork given their brand.
myspy 7y ago
What's wrong with going home at 5pm? Ever heard of work-life balance? Your start-up won't run better when you run everyone into the ground. Build sustainable businesses over shattering yourself.