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The alleged spying on US citizens. I know the rest of us are fair game somehow. This could be a chance to get this before the courts, was my actual (badly comm

by gnud 7y ago

The alleged spying on US citizens. I know the rest of us are fair game somehow. This could be a chance to get this before the courts, was my actual (badly communicated) point.

CWuestefeld 7y ago
I think we're a little past the need for an "alleged" qualifier.
likpok 7y ago
He released a lot more than the spying on US citizens. This lawsuit also appears to be about a different thing: the publication of his book. From the complaint (which is the government's side), he was supposed to get pre-authorization for publication and didn't. Therefore, the money from the book goes to the USG instead of Snowden.
- garmaine 7y ago
  Yes, but (frustratingly) it is not illegal within the US jurisdiction for the US government to violate a non-US person's privacy. The US constitution's bill of rights only protects americans. Hence why the key point is that the US intelligence agencies spied on US citizens without warrants. I agree that they shouldn't be spying on anyone in this way (get a warrant!), but spying on US citizens in this way is super duper illegal, and therefore most clearly shows that the program itself was illegal.
  - CWuestefeld 7y ago
    The US constitution's bill of rights only protects americans. In general, this is false. EVERYONE gets the right to free speech, the right to an attorney and a trial by jury, etc. I wouldn't expect anyone to say that it's OK to take illegal immigrants as slaves because they're not covered by the 13th Amendment. That said, I do see that legal opinions about Snowden's revelations say that the surveillance is OK for non-USAns. I don't understand how this is supposed to be.
    - garmaine 7y ago
      Everyone on US soil. It's definitely a radical, non-consensus opinion that the US bill of rights protects non-Americans outside the USA.
tootie 7y ago
Snowden exposed bulk metadata collection that was greenlit by the FISA court. They were granted explicit legal authority before doing it, so there's zero chance of anyone being criminally liable. The more egregious spying program during the Bush administration (Stellar Wind) was exposed years earlier by the NY Times.

by gnud 7y ago

The alleged spying on US citizens. I know the rest of us are fair game somehow. This could be a chance to get this before the courts, was my actual (badly communicated) point.

CWuestefeld 7y ago

I think we're a little past the need for an "alleged" qualifier.

likpok 7y ago

He released a lot more than the spying on US citizens. This lawsuit also appears to be about a different thing: the publication of his book. From the complaint (which is the government's side), he was supposed to get pre-authorization for publication and didn't. Therefore, the money from the book goes to the USG instead of Snowden.

garmaine 7y ago
Yes, but (frustratingly) it is not illegal within the US jurisdiction for the US government to violate a non-US person's privacy. The US constitution's bill of rights only protects americans. Hence why the key point is that the US intelligence agencies spied on US citizens without warrants. I agree that they shouldn't be spying on anyone in this way (get a warrant!), but spying on US citizens in this way is super duper illegal, and therefore most clearly shows that the program itself was illegal.
- CWuestefeld 7y ago
  The US constitution's bill of rights only protects americans. In general, this is false. EVERYONE gets the right to free speech, the right to an attorney and a trial by jury, etc. I wouldn't expect anyone to say that it's OK to take illegal immigrants as slaves because they're not covered by the 13th Amendment. That said, I do see that legal opinions about Snowden's revelations say that the surveillance is OK for non-USAns. I don't understand how this is supposed to be.
  - garmaine 7y ago
    Everyone on US soil. It's definitely a radical, non-consensus opinion that the US bill of rights protects non-Americans outside the USA.

tootie 7y ago

Snowden exposed bulk metadata collection that was greenlit by the FISA court. They were granted explicit legal authority before doing it, so there's zero chance of anyone being criminally liable. The more egregious spying program during the Bush administration (Stellar Wind) was exposed years earlier by the NY Times.