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> [Male wooly mammoths] were more likely to do silly things, like die in tar pits Apparently, across many mammalian species, males are more likely to take risk
by hirundo 7y ago
> [Male wooly mammoths] were more likely to do silly things, like die in tar pits
Apparently, across many mammalian species, males are more likely to take risks and explore than females. This seems to be good evidence that not all gendered behavior is socialized. That would seem to be a silly straw man argument to knock down, if it were not so widely held.
- empthought 7y agoMales are certainly more likely to be ostracized for aggressive behavior in social species... why assume their apparent solitude is because they are “taking risks and exploring” instead of having nowhere else to go?
- brosinante 7y agoHow dare you injure my tiny fragile male ego thusly.
- dymk 7y agoThe comment you’re responding to only suggests that some behavior is related to biological sex and not socialized, and doesn’t call out any particular behavior.
- empthought 7y agoIt specifically calls out “taking risks” and “exploring.”
- dymk 7y agoThose are pretty general, nonspecific traits, unlike “enjoys tar pits”
- PunchTornado 7y agoyour comment seems to suggest that animals aren't social and their behaviour is pure biological.
- dymk 7y agoIt literally does not and I’m not sure how you interpret “some behaviors” as “all behaviors”
- roenxi 7y agoAggressive behaviour is extremely risky, the payoffs and costs are both very high. And indeed, one of the potential costs is social ostracism. It counts under the taking risks part of 'taking risks and exploring'.
- empthought 7y agoI am not sure of the point you are trying to argue here.
- kbenson 7y ago> why assume their apparent solitude is because they are “taking risks and exploring” instead of having nowhere else to go? Pretty sure the point was to note that the "taking risks" part of that could have been the initial aggressive stance that got them ostracized. As the GP noted, there's a specific risk/payoff to behavior in a social group that might pay off well (more social status) or be very detrimental (ostracization), and given how detrimental being ostracized could be, I think many would consider that "risky behavior".
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- vecplane 7y agoA related theory is the Greater Male Variability Hypothesis - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variability_hypothesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variability_hypothesis The idea being that males tend to have flatter/wider distributions of traits, leading to higher populations at the extremes of those traits. This can include aggression, risk aversion, etc. More at the Heterodox Academy - https://heterodoxacademy.org/the-greater-male-variability-hypothesis/ https://heterodoxacademy.org/the-greater-male-variability-hy...
- eloff 7y agoIt is a silly straw man argument that should be knocked down. Society has completely lost it trying to ignore science and claim that there's no biological differences between genders. It's a joke if you're even slightly educated on the subject.
- mcv 7y agoIs anyone claiming that there are no biological differences between genders? It's very blatantly obvious that there are. I think the idea that many people oppose, is that the existence of some biological differences justifies other social differences.
- eloff 7y agoSurprisingly, this is a real position of many people today, that gender is entirely a social construct. It's pretty clear there are both social and biological underpinnings to gender - I don't know why some people insist on taking the black or white view.
- empthought 7y agoGender is an entirely social construct. You and the earlier commenters are using the word “gender” when you mean “sex.”
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- daenz 7y agoI think it is closer to the truth to say that gender is a social construct in the same way language is a social construct. The Universal Grammar Theory[0], pioneered by Noam Chomsky, gives evidence that language arises from a biological predisposition that is cross-cultural. The social construct arises from the biological construct. 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_grammar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_grammar
- 7y ago
- PunchTornado 7y ago> that not all gendered behavior is socialized animals also live in societies, complex societies in cases of elephants. it can be that those behaviours are learned in those societies. nobody says that gendered behaviour is caused by society norms only in humans.