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It says "Pay for what you generate" Do they mean "Get paid for what you generate"? Or am I missing something really fundamental here?

AtlasLion 7y ago
Didn't read the article, but it could be that they give you a free solar installation, hence becoming your energy provider.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
SamBam 7y ago
It's confusing on this sparse page, but no, you do pay for what you generate. It's a version of a rent-your-roof system. If you choose to "subscribe," you are committing to paying Tesla 10-13¢ for every kWh you generate. You are then (if you're in a state with net metering) selling it to the state for a profit. In CA, the average cost of electricity is apparently about 16¢/kWh. So you're making a profit of 3-6¢/kWh. The incentive to you is that it's free to install, and has no commitment apart from a fee of $1500 if you want to remove the system. The incentive to Tesla is that they are selling electricity to the state for full price, minus 3-6¢/kWh to you for renting your roof.
- safog 7y ago
  I was trying to run a similar arbitrage operation when the Tesla powerwall was first released but the breakeven was ridiculously long. Mine was to charge the powerwall when electricity was cheap on the grid and sell during peak. I found that a lot of the grids don't really support this kind of arbitrage at all and with the ones that do, the profit margin is so thin that it's basically not worth it. As you say, Tesla is reframing the argument from renting your roof --> you selling clean electricity to the grid to make it more palatable but I don't see a problem with that.
- Already__Taken 7y ago
  Are you buying into a network to buy power all the time at that rate? Or is it still when your specific solar installation is making power that you may buy it at that rate?
  - SamBam 7y ago
    You're buying power from the utility company, at whatever rate they set, and at the same time you are selling your power to them, at whatever rate they set. They can be thought of as two separate transactions. (You buying power can be thought of as a sunk cost, as this isn't changing it at all (unless you are also storing power), so it can be removed from the question.) At the same time that you are selling power to the utility company, you are also paying Tesla 10-13¢ for every kWh you generate. If you are able to sell at a higher rate than that, you keep the extra.
neogodless 7y ago
I was confused by that at first. If you "subscribe", you "rent" solar panels which Tesla will install, and you will use them to generate electricity which you use. You pay for the electricity that is generated, in place of paying a rental fee for the hardware. It seems unusual, but it's a bit like renting a truck for a very low price (i.e. $20) but then you pay $1.50 for every mile you drive. It's still a little hard for me to wrap my head around, though!
mc32 7y ago
I think that means while they are installing it on your property, you’re not paying for the assets, and will pay for the electricity you use but at a rate discounted compared to the regular utility? So it still makes economic sense. They could word that better. “We sell you the electricity generated that you use at a discounted rate compared to utilities”
- SamBam 7y ago
  No, that's not it. You're still buying and selling electricity to and from your utility company. The 12¢/kWh that you're paying to Tesla is the rental on the solar panels. Why it seems confusing is that you're paying based on how much electricity is produced, but it's still simply a rental. If you sell your electricity to the utility for 16¢/kWh, and are paying Tesla 12¢/kWh, you will make 4¢/kWh. Which is not a lot, but it's with no upfront costs.
omgwtfbyobbq 7y ago
It's weird way to phrase it. It just means you pay Tesla for what their system generates on your property. I guess the idea is that since it's your property you're the one generating energy, albeit with their equipment.

AtlasLion 7y ago

Didn't read the article, but it could be that they give you a free solar installation, hence becoming your energy provider.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

SamBam 7y ago

It's confusing on this sparse page, but no, you do pay for what you generate. It's a version of a rent-your-roof system. If you choose to "subscribe," you are committing to paying Tesla 10-13¢ for every kWh you generate. You are then (if you're in a state with net metering) selling it to the state for a profit. In CA, the average cost of electricity is apparently about 16¢/kWh. So you're making a profit of 3-6¢/kWh. The incentive to you is that it's free to install, and has no commitment apart from a fee of $1500 if you want to remove the system. The incentive to Tesla is that they are selling electricity to the state for full price, minus 3-6¢/kWh to you for renting your roof.

safog 7y ago
I was trying to run a similar arbitrage operation when the Tesla powerwall was first released but the breakeven was ridiculously long. Mine was to charge the powerwall when electricity was cheap on the grid and sell during peak. I found that a lot of the grids don't really support this kind of arbitrage at all and with the ones that do, the profit margin is so thin that it's basically not worth it. As you say, Tesla is reframing the argument from renting your roof --> you selling clean electricity to the grid to make it more palatable but I don't see a problem with that.
Already__Taken 7y ago
Are you buying into a network to buy power all the time at that rate? Or is it still when your specific solar installation is making power that you may buy it at that rate?
- SamBam 7y ago
  You're buying power from the utility company, at whatever rate they set, and at the same time you are selling your power to them, at whatever rate they set. They can be thought of as two separate transactions. (You buying power can be thought of as a sunk cost, as this isn't changing it at all (unless you are also storing power), so it can be removed from the question.) At the same time that you are selling power to the utility company, you are also paying Tesla 10-13¢ for every kWh you generate. If you are able to sell at a higher rate than that, you keep the extra.

neogodless 7y ago

I was confused by that at first. If you "subscribe", you "rent" solar panels which Tesla will install, and you will use them to generate electricity which you use. You pay for the electricity that is generated, in place of paying a rental fee for the hardware. It seems unusual, but it's a bit like renting a truck for a very low price (i.e. $20) but then you pay $1.50 for every mile you drive. It's still a little hard for me to wrap my head around, though!

mc32 7y ago

I think that means while they are installing it on your property, you’re not paying for the assets, and will pay for the electricity you use but at a rate discounted compared to the regular utility? So it still makes economic sense. They could word that better. “We sell you the electricity generated that you use at a discounted rate compared to utilities”

SamBam 7y ago
No, that's not it. You're still buying and selling electricity to and from your utility company. The 12¢/kWh that you're paying to Tesla is the rental on the solar panels. Why it seems confusing is that you're paying based on how much electricity is produced, but it's still simply a rental. If you sell your electricity to the utility for 16¢/kWh, and are paying Tesla 12¢/kWh, you will make 4¢/kWh. Which is not a lot, but it's with no upfront costs.

omgwtfbyobbq 7y ago

It's weird way to phrase it. It just means you pay Tesla for what their system generates on your property. I guess the idea is that since it's your property you're the one generating energy, albeit with their equipment.