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https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-23/amazon-joins-walmart-in-saying-tesla-solar-panels-caught-fire https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08

by MertsA 7y ago

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-23/amazon-joins-walmart-in-saying-tesla-solar-panels-caught-fire https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-23/amazon-jo... Multiple large companies have abandoned Tesla's commercial solar installations because of the fire risk they seem to present.

jacobush 7y ago
True but small installations should be different?
- AndrewBissell 7y ago
  Just have a gander at #TeslaSolarIssues on Twitter, many smaller residential customers have also reported huge problems and terrible service with their solar installations.
Robotbeat 7y ago
Aren't some of these installations from quite a while ago, i.e. the Solar City days?
- AndrewBissell 7y ago
  Yes, SolarCity, the company which was run by Elon Musk and his cousins and whose obligations were assumed by Tesla when it was acquired. The problem is not so much that the installations have problems as that Tesla is completely unwilling and unable to diagnose and fix the problems. At this point with everything that is known about how Tesla's existing solar customers have been treated, you'd have to be crazy to sign a solar lease agreement with Tesla and become dependent on their service for your electricity supply.
  - omgwtfbyobbq 7y ago
    Where did it state that Tesla was completely unwilling and unable to diagnose and fix the problems? >“Tesla worked collaboratively with Amazon to root cause the event and remediate,” it said. “We also performed inspections at the other sites, which confirmed the integrity of the systems,” adding that all 11 Amazon sites are generating energy and are monitored and maintained. >Walmart and Tesla issued a joint statement late Thursday, saying they were in talks to resolve their issues. “Both companies want each and every system to operate reliably, efficiently, and safely,” they said.
    - AndrewBissell 7y ago
      The gory details are all in the legal filings. I'm really not interested in whatever meaningless press statements Tesla is putting out to cover their ass after they were depantsed by the lawsuit. "They agreed to fix everything after we sent a team of high priced lawyers after them" doesn't instill confidence.
      - british_india 7y ago
        Sounds like a Tesla hater...
      - dragontamer 7y ago
        Here is Walmart's legal filing: https://www.plainsite.org/dockets/40v40ia2y/supreme-court-of-the-state-of-new-york-new-york-county/walmart-inc-fka-walmart-stores-inc-v-tesla-energy-operations-inc-fka-solarcity-cor/ https://www.plainsite.org/dockets/40v40ia2y/supreme-court-of... There are quite a few major quotes here that suggests gross negligence on the behalf of SolarCity (and Tesla) on this very issue. The court case isn't resolved yet, but the allegations are quite damning. It doesn't seem like Tesla is the best company to partner with, especially if an issue (ex: fire) breaks out. Again: fires and accidents happen. Especially when you deploy 200+ large scale installations like Walmart did. The problem is how poorly Walmart was treated by Tesla. After three fires, Walmart demanded all of the solar panels to be disconnected. And yet, other fires broke out. Walmart has tons of money and hired investigators to look into root causes, a typical business won't have that kind of money or time to "debug" someone else's work.
- dragontamer 7y ago
  Has management changed significantly from Solar City days? Its "reasonable" to make a mistake. The problem wasn't the fires per se, but the management of the fires. https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-project-titan-replace-bad-solar-panel-parts-2019-8 https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-project-titan-replace-... Solar City did NOT issue a recall or a notice to their customers. So if Tesla makes another screwup, they will likely keep it secret. This is a company which operates in the shadows. If they make a mistake, they'll keep it quiet. Compared to a "typical" company who will issue a public recall notice and inform customers. Solar City was run by Musk's cousin, and is now owned by Musk himself under the Tesla company. The general management chain has not changed.
  - Robotbeat 7y ago
    That is not accurate. Tesla regularly issues recalls (some of which can be fixed in the field) proactively, and a "typical" company may try to keep a problem quiet or wait until forced to by safety bodies. I mean for goodness sake, look at the behavior of "typical" German carmakers with the dieselgate scandal (which continues). Against that backdrop, Tesla is a model of upright behavior. I realize that not everything Elon Musk does is rainbows and unicorns, but there's some serious animus against Tesla in the comments here that is not borne out by objective facts (although plenty of cherry picking is, of course, possible to exaggerate problems that are not uncommon across these industries).
    - dragontamer 7y ago
      I'm talking about the SolarCity case, as well as Walmart's allegations against Tesla. SolarCity knew that their solar panels were catching on fire. There was NO recall issued in the past years. Period. Another note: Walmart's dealing with SolarCity (AND Tesla, post-purchase) is horrifying. https://www.plainsite.org/dockets/40v40ia2y/supreme-court-of-the-state-of-new-york-new-york-county/walmart-inc-fka-walmart-stores-inc-v-tesla-energy-operations-inc-fka-solarcity-cor/ https://www.plainsite.org/dockets/40v40ia2y/supreme-court-of... > Moreover, Tesla's wire management practices were negligent and inconsistent with prudent industry practices. Loose and hanging wires were present at multiple Walmart locations, resulting in abraded and exposed wires, decreased insulation, and a phenomenon known as arcing that substantially increases the risk of fire by causing electricity to travel through an unintended path. Tesla also failed to "ground" its systems properly, violating basic practices for the installation and operation of electrical systems in a way that increased the risk of electrical fire. ------- I don't care how cheap you make your system! The fact of the matter is, SolarCity / Tesla's reputation is in tatters because of this fire incident, and Tesla management has done NOTHING to reassure its customers that they've got the fires under control.

by MertsA 7y ago

jacobush 7y ago

True but small installations should be different?

AndrewBissell 7y ago
Just have a gander at #TeslaSolarIssues on Twitter, many smaller residential customers have also reported huge problems and terrible service with their solar installations.

Robotbeat 7y ago

Aren't some of these installations from quite a while ago, i.e. the Solar City days?

AndrewBissell 7y ago
Yes, SolarCity, the company which was run by Elon Musk and his cousins and whose obligations were assumed by Tesla when it was acquired. The problem is not so much that the installations have problems as that Tesla is completely unwilling and unable to diagnose and fix the problems. At this point with everything that is known about how Tesla's existing solar customers have been treated, you'd have to be crazy to sign a solar lease agreement with Tesla and become dependent on their service for your electricity supply.
- omgwtfbyobbq 7y ago
  Where did it state that Tesla was completely unwilling and unable to diagnose and fix the problems? >“Tesla worked collaboratively with Amazon to root cause the event and remediate,” it said. “We also performed inspections at the other sites, which confirmed the integrity of the systems,” adding that all 11 Amazon sites are generating energy and are monitored and maintained. >Walmart and Tesla issued a joint statement late Thursday, saying they were in talks to resolve their issues. “Both companies want each and every system to operate reliably, efficiently, and safely,” they said.
  - AndrewBissell 7y ago
    The gory details are all in the legal filings. I'm really not interested in whatever meaningless press statements Tesla is putting out to cover their ass after they were depantsed by the lawsuit. "They agreed to fix everything after we sent a team of high priced lawyers after them" doesn't instill confidence.
    - british_india 7y ago
      Sounds like a Tesla hater...
    - dragontamer 7y ago
      Here is Walmart's legal filing: https://www.plainsite.org/dockets/40v40ia2y/supreme-court-of-the-state-of-new-york-new-york-county/walmart-inc-fka-walmart-stores-inc-v-tesla-energy-operations-inc-fka-solarcity-cor/ https://www.plainsite.org/dockets/40v40ia2y/supreme-court-of... There are quite a few major quotes here that suggests gross negligence on the behalf of SolarCity (and Tesla) on this very issue. The court case isn't resolved yet, but the allegations are quite damning. It doesn't seem like Tesla is the best company to partner with, especially if an issue (ex: fire) breaks out. Again: fires and accidents happen. Especially when you deploy 200+ large scale installations like Walmart did. The problem is how poorly Walmart was treated by Tesla. After three fires, Walmart demanded all of the solar panels to be disconnected. And yet, other fires broke out. Walmart has tons of money and hired investigators to look into root causes, a typical business won't have that kind of money or time to "debug" someone else's work.
dragontamer 7y ago
Has management changed significantly from Solar City days? Its "reasonable" to make a mistake. The problem wasn't the fires per se, but the management of the fires. https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-project-titan-replace-bad-solar-panel-parts-2019-8 https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-project-titan-replace-... Solar City did NOT issue a recall or a notice to their customers. So if Tesla makes another screwup, they will likely keep it secret. This is a company which operates in the shadows. If they make a mistake, they'll keep it quiet. Compared to a "typical" company who will issue a public recall notice and inform customers. Solar City was run by Musk's cousin, and is now owned by Musk himself under the Tesla company. The general management chain has not changed.
- Robotbeat 7y ago
  That is not accurate. Tesla regularly issues recalls (some of which can be fixed in the field) proactively, and a "typical" company may try to keep a problem quiet or wait until forced to by safety bodies. I mean for goodness sake, look at the behavior of "typical" German carmakers with the dieselgate scandal (which continues). Against that backdrop, Tesla is a model of upright behavior. I realize that not everything Elon Musk does is rainbows and unicorns, but there's some serious animus against Tesla in the comments here that is not borne out by objective facts (although plenty of cherry picking is, of course, possible to exaggerate problems that are not uncommon across these industries).
  - dragontamer 7y ago
    I'm talking about the SolarCity case, as well as Walmart's allegations against Tesla. SolarCity knew that their solar panels were catching on fire. There was NO recall issued in the past years. Period. Another note: Walmart's dealing with SolarCity (AND Tesla, post-purchase) is horrifying. https://www.plainsite.org/dockets/40v40ia2y/supreme-court-of-the-state-of-new-york-new-york-county/walmart-inc-fka-walmart-stores-inc-v-tesla-energy-operations-inc-fka-solarcity-cor/ https://www.plainsite.org/dockets/40v40ia2y/supreme-court-of... > Moreover, Tesla's wire management practices were negligent and inconsistent with prudent industry practices. Loose and hanging wires were present at multiple Walmart locations, resulting in abraded and exposed wires, decreased insulation, and a phenomenon known as arcing that substantially increases the risk of fire by causing electricity to travel through an unintended path. Tesla also failed to "ground" its systems properly, violating basic practices for the installation and operation of electrical systems in a way that increased the risk of electrical fire. ------- I don't care how cheap you make your system! The fact of the matter is, SolarCity / Tesla's reputation is in tatters because of this fire incident, and Tesla management has done NOTHING to reassure its customers that they've got the fires under control.