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People seem to be saying a variety of things about RMS: He's a genius, so let him be. He doesn't understand interpersonal communication. He didn't say the thing
by reuven 7y ago
People seem to be saying a variety of things about RMS: He's a genius, so let him be. He doesn't understand interpersonal communication. He didn't say the things people thought he said. People are too quick to judge. And so forth.
I was there, about 20 years ago, when he sent e-mail urging all free-software advocates to protest a bill under consideration in the US Congress. I asked him if he had read the bill. "No," he said, "I don't surf the Web." I saw that as a huge cop-out; how could someone claim any moral or leadership authority when he called for protests and a letter-writing campaign on a subject he didn't know about first hand?
It's certainly true that RMS has been remarkably consistent over the 30 years or so in which I've interacted with him -- starting when I was a reporter for the MIT student newspaper, and then maintained the Emacs FAQ, and then wrote for Linux Journal. (No, not GNU/Linux Journal. Sheesh.) He's an extremist. He's a purist. He indeed doesn't get the nuances of interpersonal communication.
But you know what? You can't both lead an organization and be tone deaf to people. You can't be a public figure, demanding respect, and then show such disrespect to others. You can't expect that people will pay attention to what you say when you have so little respect for what they say.
Stallman has long been difficult, obstinate, and rude to people in general -- and a general drag on the cause of open-source (or "free") software. But I had no idea that he was known to be so terrible to women.
But even if he had treated women well -- which doesn't seem to be the case -- it's pretty hard to imagine anyone, anywhere defending Jeffrey Epstein in any way, shape, or form. The guy was terrible, did horrible things, abused a huge number of women, and amassed wealth and power in the most disgusting ways possible. To defend Epstein, or the people who were associated with him, is unacceptable.
Again: You want to defend Epstein in your own personal life? Go for it; you won't have many friends or colleagues afterwards, but that's up to you. But if you do it as the public face of a well-known activist organization? You can't possibly stick around there.
Good riddance.
- ubermonkey 7y agoI'm very glad to read this here. I'm sorry it's so far down the page. RMS achieved a sort of secular saintly status early on, and as a result has been excused from developing any sort of interpersonal skills or, apparently, human decency for most of his adult life. Now we say he identifies as autistic, like this excuses it, but in the absence of an actual diagnosis (and maybe even WITH one), it feels like a cop out. It's well past time to accept that rms may well have damaged the FOSS movement with his behavior as much as he's helped it in recent years. The free & open software world can do better. It deserves better. We ought to demand it. Moving on from rms is a great first step.
- prolepunk 7y agoEven with diagnosis this is a cop out. Being autistic does not automatically make a person act shitty towards others and statements like that do a great disservice to autistic community.
- Sacho 7y agoYour argument against Stallman seems to hinge on him defending Epstein, which is something he didn't do. He was defending his late friend, Minsky. Specifically, he was unhappy with the language used to describe his conduct evoking imagery worse than the actual conduct.
- GaryNumanVevo 7y ago> worse than the actual conduct A 74 year old man allegedly has sex with a 17 year old on an island of a known pedophile and sex trafficker.
- steveeq1 7y agoDid you even read his statement? He wasn't defending Epstein, he was defending minsky.
- lone_haxx0r 7y ago> He's an extremist. He's a purist. He indeed doesn't get the nuances of interpersonal communication. When people say "getting the nuances of interpersonal communication", they usually mean "Not telling the truth when it may hurt other people's feelings or your own reputation". It's perfectly reasonable to not not tell the truth —and even lie— in those cases, but I would prefer if you stated this idea like it is. "Getting the nuances of interpersonal communication" is saying it like one doesn't understand that people don't act rationally and will throw logic completely out of the window when one of their religious ideas gets questioned. Stallman is not an idiot, he knows he will get shit for saying what he says, he perfectly gets the "nuances" (i.e. irrational behaviour) of personal communication. He just doesn't care about them.
- throwawaylolx 7y ago>how could someone claim any moral or leadership authority when he called for protests and a letter-writing campaign on a subject he didn't know about first hand? ... >You want to defend Epstein in your own personal life? Go for it; you won't have many friends or colleagues afterwards, but that's up to you. But if you do it as the public face of a well-known activist organization? You can't possibly stick around there. You criticise him for not having read the bill, yet you rant about him without having read his emails? Where did he defend Epstein?
- reuven 7y agoI did write: > To defend Epstein, or the people who were associated with him, is unacceptable. Sorry, but Epstein's crimes, and the horrible things he did to a lot of people, and the growing web of powerful people involved with these crimes, are not something to have trivial fights over. Maybe RMS was just defending Minsky's participation in Epstein's sex trafficking scheme. That's bad enough to me.
- sobani 7y ago> Minsky's participation in Epstein's sex trafficking scheme. source please? All I know is that a girl offered herself to Minsky and that he rejected her.
- reuven 7y agoA 2016 court deposition, in which a woman claimed to have been forced to have sex with Minsky, at Epstein's compound in the Virgin Islands. This was not just Minsky having dinner with the guy in his apartment. Link: https://www.theverge.com/2019/8/9/20798900/marvin-minsky-jeffrey-epstein-sex-trafficking-island-court-records-unsealed https://www.theverge.com/2019/8/9/20798900/marvin-minsky-jef...
- flippinburgers 7y agoThe sweet irony of you criticizing him of not reading something when you yourself clearly didn't read what he had to say!
- reuven 7y agoI did read his e-mail, actually. And what's why I wrote: > To defend Epstein, or the people who were associated with him, is unacceptable. He's defending Minsky, who was indeed an inspirational genius in many ways, for being part of Epstein's sex trafficking. Sorry, but there's no possible defense there. Trying to say something nice, or claim that Minsky didn't know, or say that we shouldn't use terms like "sexual assault" because they are laced with moral judgment, is all pretty bad.
- concordDance 7y agoWhy the heck is pointing out those facts bad? Is it because it makes the dogpiling seem less justified? That we shouldn't just try and destroy everything that magical thinking can link to Epstien?
- dangerface 7y ago> He's a genius, so let him be I haven't seen anyone actually make that argument, but I have seen a lot of people arguing against it.