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These stories are so opposite of horrifying that I have to honestly question the authors cognition and intent. > Alumni from as far back as the 1980’s reached

These stories are so opposite of horrifying that I have to honestly question the authors cognition and intent. > Alumni from as far back as the 1980’s reached out to me and told horrifying stories, such as: 1) An emacs joke. 2) RMS had a mattress and grody friends in his office. 3) RMS is awful at asking women out.

jgwil2 7y ago
> ...Richard Stallman told me of his misery and that he’d kill himself if I didn’t go out with him. That's beyond awful at asking women out, especially given that the woman in question was an undergrad at the time.
- microtherion 7y ago
  That would be a disgusting tactic to use even in a long term relationship. Doing this with a person some 10 years younger than you that you just met is indeed beyond awful.
  - astine 7y ago
    Just to play devil's advocate, if Stallman is genuinely autistic, as many people seem to believe, it's possible that he didn't understand it as a 'tactic'; that he just expressed to this woman how he felt and didn't consider whether it would be manipulative. There's still the problem that he's asking out a woman that much younger than him, but I think genuine obliviousness is a possibility here.
    - microtherion 7y ago
      As the father of an autistic son, and having had a very awkward dating life myself, I empathize to some extent. People on the spectrum tend not to speak emotions and empathy as a native language. But they’re often good learners if properly taught. Never setting boundaries for RMS for decades may have contributed to him never been properly housebroken and ultimately didn’t do him any favors.
      - astine 7y ago
        "Never setting boundaries for RMS for decades may have contributed to him never been properly housebroken and ultimately didn’t do him any favors." I don't disagree.
    - qzx_pierri 7y ago
      You’re thinking too much. Stop giving RMS the benefit of the doubt, and stop trying to use logic to put yourself into his shoes. You’re not allowed to empathize or play devils advocate. It’s 2019, you have to blindly agree or you’re “part of the problem”. Now assume your moral position, or prepare to be ostracized.
    - notus 7y ago
      I don't get why people are playing devil's advocate for Stallman so much on this. If it had been anyone else, a famous actor for example, the pitchforks would be out by everyone, but because he is a figure in the computing world people want to make excuses for him. This seems more like people unwilling to accept a revered figured in their community is a bad person.
      - astine 7y ago
        Honestly, I've never like Stallman. I've long argued that he was a liability. The reason I'm playing devil's advocate here (I can't speak for anyone else) is that this is at least partially in response to a viral media shit-storm which at least partially misrepresented him. I've seen a lot of these happen over the years and I never like it when they happen, whether to an actor, or to tech sector person, or to a journalist, or whomever. At the very least, someone needs to play devil's advocate if only to keep us honest in our accusations. I suspect a lot of people feel this way and you're only seeing on HN because Stallman is HN relevant and most actors aren't.
microtherion 7y ago
> RMS is awful at asking women out. Picture yourself as a freshman in a university where the vast majority of senior academics are gay and keep asking you out on dates. You can always say no, but don’t you think you would perceive this as a rather hostile environment?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- MisterTea 7y ago
  Hostile? Hostile was the time I was setting up entertainment equipment in an LGBTQ center in Manhattan and had a rather large fellow harass me. First he was polite and chatted with me, I could tell he was interested in me. He kept asking me if I was attending the party or if I wanted to stay. I was polite, told him I was simply the setup crew and rebuffed. Then out of nowhere he pushes a table against me pinning me to a wall as he jokingly said "now you have no choice but to stay until I take you home tonight" That was physical and sexual harassment which was fucking gross and disgusting. I told him to fuck off and I reported that whack job to the staff. They were just like "oh. thats so-and-so for ya." That is a hostile work environment. What RMS did in that instance was certainly gross and awkward but in no way hostile. People lack perspective.
- forgottenpass 7y ago
  >don’t you think you would perceive this as a rather hostile environment? No, I'd see it as pathetic and desperate. Which is exactly how I felt about the men and women that worked for the university I attended and were known to date students or had hit on me. Now if we wanted to talk "hostile environment" the uncomfortable situation my gay highschool principal put me in always drops jaws when I tell the story, but I just think it's funny. I shrugged it off in about 30 seconds and doesn't even rate on the list of things I didn't like about highschool.

jgwil2 7y ago

> ...Richard Stallman told me of his misery and that he’d kill himself if I didn’t go out with him. That's beyond awful at asking women out, especially given that the woman in question was an undergrad at the time.

microtherion 7y ago
That would be a disgusting tactic to use even in a long term relationship. Doing this with a person some 10 years younger than you that you just met is indeed beyond awful.
- astine 7y ago
  Just to play devil's advocate, if Stallman is genuinely autistic, as many people seem to believe, it's possible that he didn't understand it as a 'tactic'; that he just expressed to this woman how he felt and didn't consider whether it would be manipulative. There's still the problem that he's asking out a woman that much younger than him, but I think genuine obliviousness is a possibility here.
  - microtherion 7y ago
    As the father of an autistic son, and having had a very awkward dating life myself, I empathize to some extent. People on the spectrum tend not to speak emotions and empathy as a native language. But they’re often good learners if properly taught. Never setting boundaries for RMS for decades may have contributed to him never been properly housebroken and ultimately didn’t do him any favors.
    - astine 7y ago
      "Never setting boundaries for RMS for decades may have contributed to him never been properly housebroken and ultimately didn’t do him any favors." I don't disagree.
  - qzx_pierri 7y ago
    You’re thinking too much. Stop giving RMS the benefit of the doubt, and stop trying to use logic to put yourself into his shoes. You’re not allowed to empathize or play devils advocate. It’s 2019, you have to blindly agree or you’re “part of the problem”. Now assume your moral position, or prepare to be ostracized.
  - notus 7y ago
    I don't get why people are playing devil's advocate for Stallman so much on this. If it had been anyone else, a famous actor for example, the pitchforks would be out by everyone, but because he is a figure in the computing world people want to make excuses for him. This seems more like people unwilling to accept a revered figured in their community is a bad person.
    - astine 7y ago
      Honestly, I've never like Stallman. I've long argued that he was a liability. The reason I'm playing devil's advocate here (I can't speak for anyone else) is that this is at least partially in response to a viral media shit-storm which at least partially misrepresented him. I've seen a lot of these happen over the years and I never like it when they happen, whether to an actor, or to tech sector person, or to a journalist, or whomever. At the very least, someone needs to play devil's advocate if only to keep us honest in our accusations. I suspect a lot of people feel this way and you're only seeing on HN because Stallman is HN relevant and most actors aren't.

microtherion 7y ago

> RMS is awful at asking women out. Picture yourself as a freshman in a university where the vast majority of senior academics are gay and keep asking you out on dates. You can always say no, but don’t you think you would perceive this as a rather hostile environment?

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
MisterTea 7y ago
Hostile? Hostile was the time I was setting up entertainment equipment in an LGBTQ center in Manhattan and had a rather large fellow harass me. First he was polite and chatted with me, I could tell he was interested in me. He kept asking me if I was attending the party or if I wanted to stay. I was polite, told him I was simply the setup crew and rebuffed. Then out of nowhere he pushes a table against me pinning me to a wall as he jokingly said "now you have no choice but to stay until I take you home tonight" That was physical and sexual harassment which was fucking gross and disgusting. I told him to fuck off and I reported that whack job to the staff. They were just like "oh. thats so-and-so for ya." That is a hostile work environment. What RMS did in that instance was certainly gross and awkward but in no way hostile. People lack perspective.
forgottenpass 7y ago
>don’t you think you would perceive this as a rather hostile environment? No, I'd see it as pathetic and desperate. Which is exactly how I felt about the men and women that worked for the university I attended and were known to date students or had hit on me. Now if we wanted to talk "hostile environment" the uncomfortable situation my gay highschool principal put me in always drops jaws when I tell the story, but I just think it's funny. I shrugged it off in about 30 seconds and doesn't even rate on the list of things I didn't like about highschool.