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"Headlines say that I defended Epstein," Stallman wrote. "Nothing could be further from the truth. I've called him a 'serial rapist,' and said he deserved to be

"Headlines say that I defended Epstein," Stallman wrote. "Nothing could be further from the truth. I've called him a 'serial rapist,' and said he deserved to be imprisoned. But many people now believe I defended him — and other inaccurate claims — and feel a real hurt because of what they believe I said. I'm sorry for that hurt. I wish I could have prevented the misunderstanding." https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September_2019_(Statements_about_Epstein) https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September...

eropple 7y ago
That's a "I'm sorry you were offended" apology. Which is not an apology at all. Stallman decided it was a great idea to, in the wrong place at the wrong time and in response to a protest regarding someone he knew (Minsky, not Epstein), construct a hypothetical that exonerated Minsky and then judge that protest, again publicly, through that hypothetical. That's not a "believe he said" thing. That's what he did. He got tossed out on his ear for that and that's a thing he did.
- lliamander 7y ago
  Just so you know, the central victim of this scandal did not (to my knowledge) actually accuse Minsky of having sex with her - only that she was coerced by Epstein to make the offer. An offer which another witness testified was turned down. If true then the protest against Minsky has no basis (or at least much less). Now, RMS then did construct a hypothetical based on his knowledge of Minsky's character. Note that nowhere in his hypothetical did he either defend Epstein or assert that the victim was in fact willing - both of which were things that he was accused of doing. He then insisted that people be more precise in their speech, which is exactly what you should do if you want actual justice.
bluntfang 7y ago
http://simon-mcav.blogspot.com/2016/05/im-sorry-you-feel-that-way-is-not.html http://simon-mcav.blogspot.com/2016/05/im-sorry-you-feel-tha... > When a person tells someone else "I'm sorry that you feel that way", they are not acknowledging the potential role they might have played in making them feel this way. Instead, it is more like they are absolving themselves of responsibility, and are showing apparent sympathy that the person who is complaining might be upset for some abstract, and potentially irrational reason. It not only fails to acknowledge the potential role played by the speaker (or who they might represent), but this phrase is actually used to position the speaker as an innocent actor who has had little or no influence over the current situation.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- dangerface 7y ago
  > He could even have made his point of thinking it's a misunderstanding and appologize, but didn't. > feel a real hurt because of what they believe I said. I'm sorry for that hurt. I wish I could have prevented the misunderstanding. The statement that RMS did not attempt to make an apology even one that is a false apology is 100% made up, he did in fact make a false apology. My point is that like many people on here the person making the argument believes RMS did wrong and they are now inventing reasons to justify their belief, its not an honest argument. You are ignoring or not reading the argument I was responding to which establishes the honesty of an apology as irrelevant. This is another example of a dishonest argument because it is moving the goal posts of the argument again to justify your prior beliefs.
  - anotheryou 7y ago
    I didn't see/find his post. Thanks for that.
  - Chris2048 7y ago
    > he did in fact make a false apology No he didn't. Making a false apology requires some form of deception or misdirection whereby it isn't obvious that you are denying any responsibility. For example "I'm sorry you feel that way - but I'm not at fault!" Is not a false apology, since it is very clear that you are denying responsibility, despite that fact that it contains the triggering substring "I'm sorry you feel that way".
- Chris2048 7y ago
  > who has had little or no influence over the current situation. Stallman had no control over being misquoted. He also didn't say "I'm sorry that you feel that way" - He specifically mentions he was misquoted, leaving no doubt that he is not apologizing for the cause of the offense - People were offended by the misquotes, not the original statements.

eropple 7y ago

That's a "I'm sorry you were offended" apology. Which is not an apology at all. Stallman decided it was a great idea to, in the wrong place at the wrong time and in response to a protest regarding someone he knew (Minsky, not Epstein), construct a hypothetical that exonerated Minsky and then judge that protest, again publicly, through that hypothetical. That's not a "believe he said" thing. That's what he did. He got tossed out on his ear for that and that's a thing he did.

lliamander 7y ago
Just so you know, the central victim of this scandal did not (to my knowledge) actually accuse Minsky of having sex with her - only that she was coerced by Epstein to make the offer. An offer which another witness testified was turned down. If true then the protest against Minsky has no basis (or at least much less). Now, RMS then did construct a hypothetical based on his knowledge of Minsky's character. Note that nowhere in his hypothetical did he either defend Epstein or assert that the victim was in fact willing - both of which were things that he was accused of doing. He then insisted that people be more precise in their speech, which is exactly what you should do if you want actual justice.

bluntfang 7y ago

http://simon-mcav.blogspot.com/2016/05/im-sorry-you-feel-that-way-is-not.html http://simon-mcav.blogspot.com/2016/05/im-sorry-you-feel-tha... > When a person tells someone else "I'm sorry that you feel that way", they are not acknowledging the potential role they might have played in making them feel this way. Instead, it is more like they are absolving themselves of responsibility, and are showing apparent sympathy that the person who is complaining might be upset for some abstract, and potentially irrational reason. It not only fails to acknowledge the potential role played by the speaker (or who they might represent), but this phrase is actually used to position the speaker as an innocent actor who has had little or no influence over the current situation.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
dangerface 7y ago
> He could even have made his point of thinking it's a misunderstanding and appologize, but didn't. > feel a real hurt because of what they believe I said. I'm sorry for that hurt. I wish I could have prevented the misunderstanding. The statement that RMS did not attempt to make an apology even one that is a false apology is 100% made up, he did in fact make a false apology. My point is that like many people on here the person making the argument believes RMS did wrong and they are now inventing reasons to justify their belief, its not an honest argument. You are ignoring or not reading the argument I was responding to which establishes the honesty of an apology as irrelevant. This is another example of a dishonest argument because it is moving the goal posts of the argument again to justify your prior beliefs.
- anotheryou 7y ago
  I didn't see/find his post. Thanks for that.
- Chris2048 7y ago
  > he did in fact make a false apology No he didn't. Making a false apology requires some form of deception or misdirection whereby it isn't obvious that you are denying any responsibility. For example "I'm sorry you feel that way - but I'm not at fault!" Is not a false apology, since it is very clear that you are denying responsibility, despite that fact that it contains the triggering substring "I'm sorry you feel that way".
Chris2048 7y ago
> who has had little or no influence over the current situation. Stallman had no control over being misquoted. He also didn't say "I'm sorry that you feel that way" - He specifically mentions he was misquoted, leaving no doubt that he is not apologizing for the cause of the offense - People were offended by the misquotes, not the original statements.