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What a patently absurd take. Implying that the only part of Melinda's experience that matters is how much money she has access to. If you really think she's exp

What a patently absurd take. Implying that the only part of Melinda's experience that matters is how much money she has access to. If you really think she's experienced no negatives due to her gender I ask you to consider what common negative experience would be for women, I'm sure you'll find that status and wealth don't much change the nature of these experiences.

leereeves 7y ago
In the US, more men are victims of violent crime, more men are unemployed, more men are homeless, more men commit suicide, fewer men go to college. The "patently absurd take" is that women are the disadvantaged gender in the US. (Obviously the situation is very different in some countries.)
- fuzz4lyfe 7y ago
  More men are raped as well, both as children and as adults if you count prisons, which as a society we generally don't and that in and of itself is informative.
  - eevilspock 7y ago
    > More men are raped as well More? OMG that is about as self-serving a piece of false information as I've ever come across here on HN.
    - DuskStar 7y ago
      How so? Is it false? I know I've heard similar things before - more men raped each year, counting prison, than women in the US - and considering the state of our prisons it feels reasonable.
    - fuzz4lyfe 7y ago
      "In 2008, it was estimated 216,000[2] inmates were sexually assaulted while serving time, according to the Department of Justice figures. That is compared to 90,479[3] rape cases outside of prison."[1] Men are 92% of the prison population[4] [1]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2449454/More-men-raped-US-women-including-prison-sexual-abuse.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2449454/More-men-ra... [2]https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=317 https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=317 [3]https://www.statista.com/statistics/191137/reported-forcible-rape-cases-in-the-usa-since-1990/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/191137/reported-forcible... [4]https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_gender.jsp https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_gende...
      - ihattendorf 7y ago
        Do you have a source that gives the number of men raped in prison? You can't just assume an even distribution.
  - carti 7y ago
    Citation needed.
- proxygeek 7y ago
  > more men are unemployed ... Am I reading the data (1) wrong? 1. https://www.dol.gov/wb/stats/NEWSTATS/latest.htm#LFPRates https://www.dol.gov/wb/stats/NEWSTATS/latest.htm#LFPRates
  - leereeves 7y ago
    You're looking at "labor force participation rate" instead of "unemployment rate". The difference is that people who aren't looking for work are "not participating" but not "unemployed". Further down that page you'll find: https://www.dol.gov/wb/stats/NEWSTATS/latest/unemployment.htm#unemp-rate https://www.dol.gov/wb/stats/NEWSTATS/latest/unemployment.ht... where the unemployment rates are given: 4.8% for women and 4.9% for men. In a strong economy like we have now, the difference is minor, but in economic down times, the difference is striking. In 2010, the unemployment rates were was 11% for men and 8.4% for women: https://www.macrotrends.net/2511/unemployment-rate-men-women https://www.macrotrends.net/2511/unemployment-rate-men-women
    - renjimen 7y ago
      > The difference is that people who aren't looking for work are "not participating" but not "unemployed". If you're a stay-at-home parent then you would fall under the "not participating" category, no? I think that's part of the problem for women in that they are often pressured to raise a family and forego a career.
      - leereeves 7y ago
        Or they choose to raise a family and stay home while their husband works. They have that option far more often than men do.
        renjimen 7y ago
        You're right, cultural norms work both ways. Work needs to be done on both sides so that both genders are free to choose what they do with their lives.
- MereInterest 7y ago
  I'd recommend this video[1], which does a rather good job of rebutting those usual MRA talking points. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDrJo8d45gc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDrJo8d45gc
  - leereeves 7y ago
    If that contains relevant facts, why not just cite them instead of asking people to watch a 30-minute political video?
    - MereInterest 7y ago
      In this case, because context and presentation is important, and I don't do as good of a job of it. It presents a cohesive whole, whereas me simply saying "More women attempt suicide than men, but men choose more violent methods that are more likely to result in death." removes a single point of your post, but not the overall worldview presented in your post.
      - leereeves 7y ago
        I think you may find that the highly politicized context and presentation in that video only does a good job at preaching to the choir.
- dahart 7y ago
  Yes, the situation is different in some countries. Gender inequality does exist in the U.S., though it’s now significantly lower than it was 50 or 100 years ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_inequality_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_inequality_in_the_Unite... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_Inequality_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_Inequality_Index Your examples seem a bit cherry picked to me. More men are victims of violent crime are in part because men are more likely to have valuables, in part because more men commit violent crime, in general because men are more violent than women. Painting that as demonstrating that men are the victims seems pretty funny to me.
  - hiram112 7y ago
    The only inequality left is for the 90% of men who are relegated to lives of farm animals in most Western societies. Every study that still claims that women have it worse make so many statistical and logical fallacies, they aren't even worth debating. Which is ironic, since feminists refuse to debate or acknowledge them anyway, and instead resort to shaming. * Wage gap. We all know the reasons. Majoring in whatever you're 'passionate' about is a luxury that apparently only women enjoy in our society. There are no artificial barriers to entry for women in any fields, and instead, as we see in Scandinavia, the more artificial equality used to push women into higher paid and rigorous fields, the less they choose them. And why would they - if I were subsidized to earn as much as the average HN reader regardless of my job, I wouldn't be slinging code all day. Look at the percentage of women in computer science in India vs Sweden, for example. * Women less represented in the top 0.1% as CEOs, senators, etc: For the 99.9% of men who aren't amongst these elites either, it is irrelevant. I might as well complain about the near zero men who are represented at the top of the super-modeling industry. * Disproportionate work spent on child rearing: That's a choice women make, and men have no say, as enforced by the state. As men, we have no rights, only the responsibility to pay for children, both individually and societally.
    - dahart 7y ago
      A major thesis in the article is gender inequality in Africa, as opposed to "Western societies".
- eevilspock 7y ago
  > more men are victims of violent crime Seriously? Have you looked at the percentage of women who have experienced sexual harassment or assault in their life? Do you understand what it is like to be a woman, to have to look over your shoulder so much of the time, the fear and anxiety that follows you or prevents you from walking alone at night or in a strange place? How many women have you talked to? The violent crime you speak of is male on male. The oppressive omnipresent threat of violence against women is by men. The population of male victims of violent crimes has a high degree of overlap with the population of perpetrators of violent crime (i.e. Your statement is like saying men are greater victims of war, when it is fact men exclusively who have perpetrated those very wars).
  - james_s_tayler 7y ago
    >Do you understand what it is like to be a woman, to have to look over your shoulder so much of the time, the fear and anxiety that follows you or prevents you from walking alone at night or in a strange place? I like how women think this uniquely applies to them. As if all men are just brimming with confidence, completely unafraid and always ready to do battle. As if they can walk past a hooded figure on a dark street and physiologically remaining completely unaffected.
    - carti 7y ago
      If you can't recognize the difference, you aren't talking with or listening to enough women in your circle about this sort of thing. I would highly encourage you to do so. Regardless, the parent is not saying that men don't also experience the fear of violence.
      - hope-striker 7y ago
        Honestly, I have no friends, so I'd really appreciate it if you could explain the difference as best as the Internet allows.
        eevilspock 7y ago
- amalcon 7y ago
  > more men are victims of violent crime This stat is skewed twice: first, by the larger percentage of men involved in bilateral violent altercations (barfights, gang violence, etc), and second, by the low reporting rates of domestic violence (women are more likely to be the victims, though there are male victims of domestic violence as well). > more men are unemployed This is only the case for a few age brackets (16-24, 55-64): https://www.dol.gov/wb/stats/NEWSTATS/latest/unemployment.htm#unemp-rate https://www.dol.gov/wb/stats/NEWSTATS/latest/unemployment.ht... That doesn't help much from age 25-54 or 65+. Assuming beginning work at 16 and retirement at 65, the man is likely to have the advantage in an arbitrary year of one's working life. The aggregate numbers shift the other way because population growth puts more people in the younger cohorts. > more men are homeless Granted. > more men commit suicide Granted. > fewer men go to college I'm not sure this stat is representative, but I don't feel like doing any more research so I will grant this one.
vintermann 7y ago
The expression "laughing all the way to the bank" comes to mind. Racism and sexism we probably won't get rid of, but it's inequalities of power that make them matter. Who cares about negativity if it comes without teeth?
eevilspock 7y ago
Reading the other replies to this comment makes me incredibly sad, though not surprised in the slightest... that so many men in what is supposed to be an exceptionally intelligent community have so little understanding of patriarchy and misogyny, and somehow see men as the disadvantaged group. Part of the problem is that this community is so male, so much so that even the men that get it tend to stay silent for fear of being losing status in such a male community.

leereeves 7y ago

In the US, more men are victims of violent crime, more men are unemployed, more men are homeless, more men commit suicide, fewer men go to college. The "patently absurd take" is that women are the disadvantaged gender in the US. (Obviously the situation is very different in some countries.)

fuzz4lyfe 7y ago
More men are raped as well, both as children and as adults if you count prisons, which as a society we generally don't and that in and of itself is informative.
- eevilspock 7y ago
  > More men are raped as well More? OMG that is about as self-serving a piece of false information as I've ever come across here on HN.
  - DuskStar 7y ago
    How so? Is it false? I know I've heard similar things before - more men raped each year, counting prison, than women in the US - and considering the state of our prisons it feels reasonable.
  - fuzz4lyfe 7y ago
    "In 2008, it was estimated 216,000[2] inmates were sexually assaulted while serving time, according to the Department of Justice figures. That is compared to 90,479[3] rape cases outside of prison."[1] Men are 92% of the prison population[4] [1]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2449454/More-men-raped-US-women-including-prison-sexual-abuse.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2449454/More-men-ra... [2]https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=317 https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=317 [3]https://www.statista.com/statistics/191137/reported-forcible-rape-cases-in-the-usa-since-1990/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/191137/reported-forcible... [4]https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_gender.jsp https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_gende...
    - ihattendorf 7y ago
      Do you have a source that gives the number of men raped in prison? You can't just assume an even distribution.
- carti 7y ago
  Citation needed.
proxygeek 7y ago
> more men are unemployed ... Am I reading the data (1) wrong? 1. https://www.dol.gov/wb/stats/NEWSTATS/latest.htm#LFPRates https://www.dol.gov/wb/stats/NEWSTATS/latest.htm#LFPRates
- leereeves 7y ago
  You're looking at "labor force participation rate" instead of "unemployment rate". The difference is that people who aren't looking for work are "not participating" but not "unemployed". Further down that page you'll find: https://www.dol.gov/wb/stats/NEWSTATS/latest/unemployment.htm#unemp-rate https://www.dol.gov/wb/stats/NEWSTATS/latest/unemployment.ht... where the unemployment rates are given: 4.8% for women and 4.9% for men. In a strong economy like we have now, the difference is minor, but in economic down times, the difference is striking. In 2010, the unemployment rates were was 11% for men and 8.4% for women: https://www.macrotrends.net/2511/unemployment-rate-men-women https://www.macrotrends.net/2511/unemployment-rate-men-women
  - renjimen 7y ago
    > The difference is that people who aren't looking for work are "not participating" but not "unemployed". If you're a stay-at-home parent then you would fall under the "not participating" category, no? I think that's part of the problem for women in that they are often pressured to raise a family and forego a career.
    - leereeves 7y ago
      Or they choose to raise a family and stay home while their husband works. They have that option far more often than men do.
      - renjimen 7y ago
        You're right, cultural norms work both ways. Work needs to be done on both sides so that both genders are free to choose what they do with their lives.
MereInterest 7y ago
I'd recommend this video[1], which does a rather good job of rebutting those usual MRA talking points. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDrJo8d45gc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDrJo8d45gc
- leereeves 7y ago
  If that contains relevant facts, why not just cite them instead of asking people to watch a 30-minute political video?
  - MereInterest 7y ago
    In this case, because context and presentation is important, and I don't do as good of a job of it. It presents a cohesive whole, whereas me simply saying "More women attempt suicide than men, but men choose more violent methods that are more likely to result in death." removes a single point of your post, but not the overall worldview presented in your post.
    - leereeves 7y ago
      I think you may find that the highly politicized context and presentation in that video only does a good job at preaching to the choir.
dahart 7y ago
Yes, the situation is different in some countries. Gender inequality does exist in the U.S., though it’s now significantly lower than it was 50 or 100 years ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_inequality_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_inequality_in_the_Unite... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_Inequality_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_Inequality_Index Your examples seem a bit cherry picked to me. More men are victims of violent crime are in part because men are more likely to have valuables, in part because more men commit violent crime, in general because men are more violent than women. Painting that as demonstrating that men are the victims seems pretty funny to me.
- hiram112 7y ago
  The only inequality left is for the 90% of men who are relegated to lives of farm animals in most Western societies. Every study that still claims that women have it worse make so many statistical and logical fallacies, they aren't even worth debating. Which is ironic, since feminists refuse to debate or acknowledge them anyway, and instead resort to shaming. * Wage gap. We all know the reasons. Majoring in whatever you're 'passionate' about is a luxury that apparently only women enjoy in our society. There are no artificial barriers to entry for women in any fields, and instead, as we see in Scandinavia, the more artificial equality used to push women into higher paid and rigorous fields, the less they choose them. And why would they - if I were subsidized to earn as much as the average HN reader regardless of my job, I wouldn't be slinging code all day. Look at the percentage of women in computer science in India vs Sweden, for example. * Women less represented in the top 0.1% as CEOs, senators, etc: For the 99.9% of men who aren't amongst these elites either, it is irrelevant. I might as well complain about the near zero men who are represented at the top of the super-modeling industry. * Disproportionate work spent on child rearing: That's a choice women make, and men have no say, as enforced by the state. As men, we have no rights, only the responsibility to pay for children, both individually and societally.
  - dahart 7y ago
    A major thesis in the article is gender inequality in Africa, as opposed to "Western societies".
eevilspock 7y ago
> more men are victims of violent crime Seriously? Have you looked at the percentage of women who have experienced sexual harassment or assault in their life? Do you understand what it is like to be a woman, to have to look over your shoulder so much of the time, the fear and anxiety that follows you or prevents you from walking alone at night or in a strange place? How many women have you talked to? The violent crime you speak of is male on male. The oppressive omnipresent threat of violence against women is by men. The population of male victims of violent crimes has a high degree of overlap with the population of perpetrators of violent crime (i.e. Your statement is like saying men are greater victims of war, when it is fact men exclusively who have perpetrated those very wars).
- james_s_tayler 7y ago
  >Do you understand what it is like to be a woman, to have to look over your shoulder so much of the time, the fear and anxiety that follows you or prevents you from walking alone at night or in a strange place? I like how women think this uniquely applies to them. As if all men are just brimming with confidence, completely unafraid and always ready to do battle. As if they can walk past a hooded figure on a dark street and physiologically remaining completely unaffected.
  - carti 7y ago
    If you can't recognize the difference, you aren't talking with or listening to enough women in your circle about this sort of thing. I would highly encourage you to do so. Regardless, the parent is not saying that men don't also experience the fear of violence.
    - hope-striker 7y ago
      Honestly, I have no friends, so I'd really appreciate it if you could explain the difference as best as the Internet allows.
      - eevilspock 7y ago
amalcon 7y ago
> more men are victims of violent crime This stat is skewed twice: first, by the larger percentage of men involved in bilateral violent altercations (barfights, gang violence, etc), and second, by the low reporting rates of domestic violence (women are more likely to be the victims, though there are male victims of domestic violence as well). > more men are unemployed This is only the case for a few age brackets (16-24, 55-64): https://www.dol.gov/wb/stats/NEWSTATS/latest/unemployment.htm#unemp-rate https://www.dol.gov/wb/stats/NEWSTATS/latest/unemployment.ht... That doesn't help much from age 25-54 or 65+. Assuming beginning work at 16 and retirement at 65, the man is likely to have the advantage in an arbitrary year of one's working life. The aggregate numbers shift the other way because population growth puts more people in the younger cohorts. > more men are homeless Granted. > more men commit suicide Granted. > fewer men go to college I'm not sure this stat is representative, but I don't feel like doing any more research so I will grant this one.

vintermann 7y ago

The expression "laughing all the way to the bank" comes to mind. Racism and sexism we probably won't get rid of, but it's inequalities of power that make them matter. Who cares about negativity if it comes without teeth?

eevilspock 7y ago

Reading the other replies to this comment makes me incredibly sad, though not surprised in the slightest... that so many men in what is supposed to be an exceptionally intelligent community have so little understanding of patriarchy and misogyny, and somehow see men as the disadvantaged group. Part of the problem is that this community is so male, so much so that even the men that get it tend to stay silent for fear of being losing status in such a male community.