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How does one learn what is wrong unless they speak out? You have to give people room to grow and forgive them when they fail.

Faark 7y ago
Yes, people have to grow to not be stupid assholes. On the other side, if people think you're a stupid asshole, they should be allowed to cut off contact. Thus you probably want to avoid growing in the only global circle we have. With smaller circles, getting cut off (as always has happened) is less of big deal. In a similar vein, I'm fine with scientists exploring "IQ of the races" in their work. But going on a podcast and sharing that with a more general audience while not understanding its role in broader society while washing concerns away with "this just facts" is fine to have consequences.
- concordDance 7y ago
  You seem to be advocating keeping the public ignorant. Presumably this only applies in cases the knowledge in question is an instance of the adage "a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing"? Do you think having norms that advocate hiding knowledge that someone could argue is dangerous from the public will do more good than harm and won't backfire in the form of public distrust of experts?
kelnos 7y ago
You learn by first listening, and asking questions. No one expects everyone to be perfect out of the gate, but you at least have to make an effort.
- reirob 7y ago
  I think that in general animals and people learn most efficiently by making mistakes. Sure, I am talking about mistakes that do not kill us. But even mistakes that kill, have hopefully a learning effect on those who observe. I think as well that we as a society should learn to be more empathic, more tolerant, to learn how to forgive, and to avoid mob judgements. Both, are my opinions. I don't know if there are any studies or references to this.
- tomd3v 7y ago
  You learn by discussing.
  - kelnos 7y ago
    Sure, that's what "listening and asking questions" is. But in the beginning, when you know very little, your default should be to absorb, not to espouse.
Kye 7y ago
Easy: don't speak authoritatively. Acknowledge the limits of your knowledge and invite better information from people who know better. I would advise not speaking authoritatively even if you are an authority. People are less likely to offer suggestions and ideas you didn't consider if you act like you know what you're talking about. I learn all kinds of things by not sounding as certain as I usually am. ...they said, authoritatively. I'm a work in progress.

Faark 7y ago

Yes, people have to grow to not be stupid assholes. On the other side, if people think you're a stupid asshole, they should be allowed to cut off contact. Thus you probably want to avoid growing in the only global circle we have. With smaller circles, getting cut off (as always has happened) is less of big deal. In a similar vein, I'm fine with scientists exploring "IQ of the races" in their work. But going on a podcast and sharing that with a more general audience while not understanding its role in broader society while washing concerns away with "this just facts" is fine to have consequences.

concordDance 7y ago
You seem to be advocating keeping the public ignorant. Presumably this only applies in cases the knowledge in question is an instance of the adage "a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing"? Do you think having norms that advocate hiding knowledge that someone could argue is dangerous from the public will do more good than harm and won't backfire in the form of public distrust of experts?

kelnos 7y ago

You learn by first listening, and asking questions. No one expects everyone to be perfect out of the gate, but you at least have to make an effort.

reirob 7y ago
I think that in general animals and people learn most efficiently by making mistakes. Sure, I am talking about mistakes that do not kill us. But even mistakes that kill, have hopefully a learning effect on those who observe. I think as well that we as a society should learn to be more empathic, more tolerant, to learn how to forgive, and to avoid mob judgements. Both, are my opinions. I don't know if there are any studies or references to this.
tomd3v 7y ago
You learn by discussing.
- kelnos 7y ago
  Sure, that's what "listening and asking questions" is. But in the beginning, when you know very little, your default should be to absorb, not to espouse.

Kye 7y ago

Easy: don't speak authoritatively. Acknowledge the limits of your knowledge and invite better information from people who know better. I would advise not speaking authoritatively even if you are an authority. People are less likely to offer suggestions and ideas you didn't consider if you act like you know what you're talking about. I learn all kinds of things by not sounding as certain as I usually am. ...they said, authoritatively. I'm a work in progress.