4 ms·

What's adultery doing on that list? Why shouldn't it be legal? Prostitution is legal in many places. Legalising it everywhere would help get rape cases reduced.

What's adultery doing on that list? Why shouldn't it be legal? Prostitution is legal in many places. Legalising it everywhere would help get rape cases reduced. Unless you're a vegan it's hard not to laugh at criticism of justification of bestiality. And regarding sex trafficking/rape - sex with a 17 year old is almost never seen as rape legally. That's a mostly US thing. The age of consent is 16 generally; lower than 16 in parts of Europe. Everyone's entitled to an opinion but criticising someone for defending actions which are legal and - subject to opinion - moral seems like a bit of a boring waste of time.

stephenr 7y ago
I simply copied the whole quote so someone who wants to defend him won’t cry about partial quotes. But sure, carry on as usual because there’s always someone to defend RMS no matter how fucked his statements are.
- seba_dos1 7y ago
  You copied two words out of a complex sentence and now you simply lie. Or maybe you don't really know what he said and that's the reason you can't understand why people may be defending him in this case?
  - stephenr 7y ago
    You need to read what you reply to. I quoted an entire statement made by RMS on his own website, claiming that amongst other things, child porn and fucking kids, should be legalised. Another poster asked why "adultery" was in the list of things in the quote, and I explained that I quoted the entire thing he said. So fuck you, read something before you want to claim people are lying.
    - seba_dos1 7y ago
      As opposed to you apparently, I've done my share of reading already: https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September_2019_(Sex_between_an_adult_and_a_child_is_wrong) https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September... ...and you just straight out lied there: > He resigned after claiming that a victim of child sex trafficking, was "a member of (the trafficker's) Harem" and "entirely willing".
      - stephenr 7y ago
        > As opposed to you apparently, I've done my share of reading already So, he says something a decade and a half ago, and then coincidentally 3 days after an email discussion where he defends a man alleged to have had sex with a victim of child sex trafficking, he suddenly "thinks adults should not do that". WELL WHAT A REVELATION. He called her a member of Epstein's Harem and said the "most likely" explanation is "she presented herself as entirely wiltingly"(sic) A harem is a collection of wives or concubines. How exactly is a child sex slave either of those things? RMS' theory is that a 70 year old man goes to a billionaire's private island and a 17 year old girl just happens to "present as willing" for sex and the guy asks no questions? As other's have said, even if he didn't know she's 17, and somehow it never occurred to him to ask, it's the plot for a bad porno, it's not a plausible chain of events in reality, and it's definitely not the most likely scenario.
        lliamander 7y ago
        Just so we're clear: > "She was asking for it" is very different from > "I don't think my friend - who I knew well - was aware that she was coerced" You, at least initially, argued that the former was the correct interpretation of his words, but to do so you did misquote him in a way that obviously altered the meaning of his words. Was that intentional or a mistake? I don't have the context for the "harem" quote, but given how you presented the quote with regard to the victim's willingness, I think it's reasonable to conclude that RMS meant something other than what you insinuate. In any case, it seems now that you recognize that the latter interpretation is correct, and you question whether RMS' position was reasonable. Fair enough. But tell me, would you know the difference between an 18yo prostitute (who is otherwise free to leave) and a 17yo slave? Look, I think what Minsky did was wrong regardless, that he was foolish to let himself become entangled with a man like Epstein, and I think it's atrocious what happened to the young woman, but these two scenarios have vastly different legal consequences. Do you not think it is plausible that Minsky thought it was the first scenario? For what it's worth, my initial thought when I heard that Minksy had been implicated in Epstein's ring, was that he was fully aware and complicit in the abuse. And Minksy may have in fact been fully aware, but RMS' words lead me to question that assumption because RMS actually knew the guy. EDIT: hold the phone. Looking at some other sources suggests that Minksy may not have even had sex with the young woman. It sounds like she was coerced by Epstein to proposition Minsky, and that according to another witness Minsky turned her down [1]. It does not appear that the victim is actually accusing Minksy of assaulting her (though I could be missing evidence. If this is the case, then why is this argument even happening? [1]https://old.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/d5a4dz/richard_stallman_resigns_from_mit_due_to_pressure/f0l50w4/?context=2 https://old.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/d5a4dz/richard_stall...
DanBC 7y ago
> And regarding sex trafficking/rape - sex with a 17 year old is almost never seen as rape legally This is untrue. Sex with a coerced child is rape in everyday English(although it may have a different more specific legal term), and sex with a 17 year old prostitute is also rape (again, it may have a more specific legal term). For all those places that have legal prostitution can you show me one that allows prostitution in under 18s?

stephenr 7y ago

I simply copied the whole quote so someone who wants to defend him won’t cry about partial quotes. But sure, carry on as usual because there’s always someone to defend RMS no matter how fucked his statements are.

seba_dos1 7y ago
You copied two words out of a complex sentence and now you simply lie. Or maybe you don't really know what he said and that's the reason you can't understand why people may be defending him in this case?
- stephenr 7y ago
  You need to read what you reply to. I quoted an entire statement made by RMS on his own website, claiming that amongst other things, child porn and fucking kids, should be legalised. Another poster asked why "adultery" was in the list of things in the quote, and I explained that I quoted the entire thing he said. So fuck you, read something before you want to claim people are lying.
  - seba_dos1 7y ago
    As opposed to you apparently, I've done my share of reading already: https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September_2019_(Sex_between_an_adult_and_a_child_is_wrong) https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September... ...and you just straight out lied there: > He resigned after claiming that a victim of child sex trafficking, was "a member of (the trafficker's) Harem" and "entirely willing".
    - stephenr 7y ago
      > As opposed to you apparently, I've done my share of reading already So, he says something a decade and a half ago, and then coincidentally 3 days after an email discussion where he defends a man alleged to have had sex with a victim of child sex trafficking, he suddenly "thinks adults should not do that". WELL WHAT A REVELATION. He called her a member of Epstein's Harem and said the "most likely" explanation is "she presented herself as entirely wiltingly"(sic) A harem is a collection of wives or concubines. How exactly is a child sex slave either of those things? RMS' theory is that a 70 year old man goes to a billionaire's private island and a 17 year old girl just happens to "present as willing" for sex and the guy asks no questions? As other's have said, even if he didn't know she's 17, and somehow it never occurred to him to ask, it's the plot for a bad porno, it's not a plausible chain of events in reality, and it's definitely not the most likely scenario.
      - lliamander 7y ago
        Just so we're clear: > "She was asking for it" is very different from > "I don't think my friend - who I knew well - was aware that she was coerced" You, at least initially, argued that the former was the correct interpretation of his words, but to do so you did misquote him in a way that obviously altered the meaning of his words. Was that intentional or a mistake? I don't have the context for the "harem" quote, but given how you presented the quote with regard to the victim's willingness, I think it's reasonable to conclude that RMS meant something other than what you insinuate. In any case, it seems now that you recognize that the latter interpretation is correct, and you question whether RMS' position was reasonable. Fair enough. But tell me, would you know the difference between an 18yo prostitute (who is otherwise free to leave) and a 17yo slave? Look, I think what Minsky did was wrong regardless, that he was foolish to let himself become entangled with a man like Epstein, and I think it's atrocious what happened to the young woman, but these two scenarios have vastly different legal consequences. Do you not think it is plausible that Minsky thought it was the first scenario? For what it's worth, my initial thought when I heard that Minksy had been implicated in Epstein's ring, was that he was fully aware and complicit in the abuse. And Minksy may have in fact been fully aware, but RMS' words lead me to question that assumption because RMS actually knew the guy. EDIT: hold the phone. Looking at some other sources suggests that Minksy may not have even had sex with the young woman. It sounds like she was coerced by Epstein to proposition Minsky, and that according to another witness Minsky turned her down [1]. It does not appear that the victim is actually accusing Minksy of assaulting her (though I could be missing evidence. If this is the case, then why is this argument even happening? [1]https://old.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/d5a4dz/richard_stallman_resigns_from_mit_due_to_pressure/f0l50w4/?context=2 https://old.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/d5a4dz/richard_stall...

DanBC 7y ago

> And regarding sex trafficking/rape - sex with a 17 year old is almost never seen as rape legally This is untrue. Sex with a coerced child is rape in everyday English(although it may have a different more specific legal term), and sex with a 17 year old prostitute is also rape (again, it may have a more specific legal term). For all those places that have legal prostitution can you show me one that allows prostitution in under 18s?