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Why not have a lottery and give non-transferable tickets to US nationals and have a fixed number of tickets for non-US nationals that are charged for? [NB I'm

Why not have a lottery and give non-transferable tickets to US nationals and have a fixed number of tickets for non-US nationals that are charged for? [NB I'm not from the US but have been to a few US national parks].

rjtavares 7y ago
This should be done more. I was absolutely bummed for not being able to the see Da Vinci's "The Last Supper", but in hindsight I understand and feel that is the way to deal with precious places. At the time, you were required to book ahead, could only stay for 15 minutes, and the number os visitors was limited (so even in November you had to book weeks ahead).
- KineticLensman 7y ago
  The Tower of London which houses the Crown Jewels [0] has a conveyor belt / moving walkway that you have to stand on to see some of the exhibits. It thus controls access and limits the time you can spend in one of the rooms (I can't remember if it possible to get back to its start to go round again) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_Jewels_of_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_Jewels_of_the_United_Kin...
prawn 7y ago
There is a permit system for Half Dome in Yosemite that expanded after we climbed it, and one for Machu Picchu that came in after we hiked the Inca Trail. The Wave has had an infamously brutal one for a while, and I think Buckskin Gulch has a limit for overnighting. So it's already done in a few places. It can be frustrating though - I've tried for The Wave a few times and never been successful. Their limit seems low. One thing worth doing is a shuttle system. Zion has one for peak months and as well as removing cars from the main canyon, you then have a captive audience which you can reach with messages about best practice in the wilderness though people ignore everything and feed animals anyway. Bryce has a shuttle too. Wouldn't surprise me if Arches was already planning one. That at least helps with the need for more and more parking.
prawn 7y ago
Another option is used in Arches. For Fiery Furnace, if you want to go in without a ranger-led guided tour, you need to pay $6 for a permit, and there are a maximum number issued. In addition, you need to watch an orientation video and then answer some basic questions about it. It's trivial for those who are interested but might limit the place getting flooded at least.
dsfyu404ed 7y ago
The revenue is too sweet. Governments do not have the self control to pass up. If not initially there will eventually be a pay to play option for the wealthy. There will eventually be a funding squeeze and some administrator will get the bright idea to open up a pay to play system. Where I live you can't take your own canoe/kayak on the state reservoirs because "invasive species" but you can take your motorboat (way more likely to transmit invasive species than a canoe) if you jump through all the regulatory hoops and then buy some special permits. The state will rent you a canoe for $20 though.
- gamblor956 7y ago
  This is false if you're referring to CA. You can't take a water vessel, motorized or not, into reservoirs or lakes unless it's been washed/cleaned and inspected to be free of invasive and highly destructive clagga mussel. Motorized boats tend to be cleaner than personal craft because most docks and marinas have dedicated facilities or equipment set aside for cleaning larger vessels.
  - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
    I'm not talking about CA. I'm talking about a state where every body of water over a certain size has to have a public boat ramp and the vast majority of them have no facilities. This is not the yacht club with their complimentary hose for washing off your boat we're talking about. Human powered watercraft do not have inaccessible bilges and cooling systems to harbor invasive species making them much less of a risk of bringing new species with them to a particular body of water.
    - gamblor956 7y ago
      There's this thing called chlorine that's been around for a few decades, at least, which owners of motorized vessels can use to clean out inaccessible locations like bilge pumps and cooling systems. It's actually more likely for personal watercraft to carry invasive species because they're less likely to be cleaned (even though they're easier to clean). Inspections for invasive species have been a major issue for at least a decade, because nobody wants to repeat what happened in the Great Lakes, where invasive species nearly destroyed the lake ecology and its many fisheries.
prawn 7y ago
Sorry to reply a third time, but the rangers of the story talk about a better distribution of visitors across the day. Half Dome permits started on weekends only and then adjusted from there. A permit system for hotspots between 10am and 3pm for example could manage the peak crowds but not prevent anyone seeing the highlights if they adjusted their schedule very slightly. In some places, this could be done with paid parking at certain times of the day, perhaps besides those with disability permits.

rjtavares 7y ago

This should be done more. I was absolutely bummed for not being able to the see Da Vinci's "The Last Supper", but in hindsight I understand and feel that is the way to deal with precious places. At the time, you were required to book ahead, could only stay for 15 minutes, and the number os visitors was limited (so even in November you had to book weeks ahead).

KineticLensman 7y ago
The Tower of London which houses the Crown Jewels [0] has a conveyor belt / moving walkway that you have to stand on to see some of the exhibits. It thus controls access and limits the time you can spend in one of the rooms (I can't remember if it possible to get back to its start to go round again) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_Jewels_of_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_Jewels_of_the_United_Kin...

prawn 7y ago

There is a permit system for Half Dome in Yosemite that expanded after we climbed it, and one for Machu Picchu that came in after we hiked the Inca Trail. The Wave has had an infamously brutal one for a while, and I think Buckskin Gulch has a limit for overnighting. So it's already done in a few places. It can be frustrating though - I've tried for The Wave a few times and never been successful. Their limit seems low. One thing worth doing is a shuttle system. Zion has one for peak months and as well as removing cars from the main canyon, you then have a captive audience which you can reach with messages about best practice in the wilderness though people ignore everything and feed animals anyway. Bryce has a shuttle too. Wouldn't surprise me if Arches was already planning one. That at least helps with the need for more and more parking.

prawn 7y ago

Another option is used in Arches. For Fiery Furnace, if you want to go in without a ranger-led guided tour, you need to pay $6 for a permit, and there are a maximum number issued. In addition, you need to watch an orientation video and then answer some basic questions about it. It's trivial for those who are interested but might limit the place getting flooded at least.

dsfyu404ed 7y ago

The revenue is too sweet. Governments do not have the self control to pass up. If not initially there will eventually be a pay to play option for the wealthy. There will eventually be a funding squeeze and some administrator will get the bright idea to open up a pay to play system. Where I live you can't take your own canoe/kayak on the state reservoirs because "invasive species" but you can take your motorboat (way more likely to transmit invasive species than a canoe) if you jump through all the regulatory hoops and then buy some special permits. The state will rent you a canoe for $20 though.

gamblor956 7y ago
This is false if you're referring to CA. You can't take a water vessel, motorized or not, into reservoirs or lakes unless it's been washed/cleaned and inspected to be free of invasive and highly destructive clagga mussel. Motorized boats tend to be cleaner than personal craft because most docks and marinas have dedicated facilities or equipment set aside for cleaning larger vessels.
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  I'm not talking about CA. I'm talking about a state where every body of water over a certain size has to have a public boat ramp and the vast majority of them have no facilities. This is not the yacht club with their complimentary hose for washing off your boat we're talking about. Human powered watercraft do not have inaccessible bilges and cooling systems to harbor invasive species making them much less of a risk of bringing new species with them to a particular body of water.
  - gamblor956 7y ago
    There's this thing called chlorine that's been around for a few decades, at least, which owners of motorized vessels can use to clean out inaccessible locations like bilge pumps and cooling systems. It's actually more likely for personal watercraft to carry invasive species because they're less likely to be cleaned (even though they're easier to clean). Inspections for invasive species have been a major issue for at least a decade, because nobody wants to repeat what happened in the Great Lakes, where invasive species nearly destroyed the lake ecology and its many fisheries.

prawn 7y ago

Sorry to reply a third time, but the rangers of the story talk about a better distribution of visitors across the day. Half Dome permits started on weekends only and then adjusted from there. A permit system for hotspots between 10am and 3pm for example could manage the peak crowds but not prevent anyone seeing the highlights if they adjusted their schedule very slightly. In some places, this could be done with paid parking at certain times of the day, perhaps besides those with disability permits.