3 ms·

> RMS is brilliant but also completely unpalatable to people outside the world of GNU. He just sacrificed his job and legacy to defend the honor of a friend.

> RMS is brilliant but also completely unpalatable to people outside the world of GNU. He just sacrificed his job and legacy to defend the honor of a friend. What kind of person do you want leading the FSF, a mealy-mouthed politician?

stephenr 7y ago
> He just sacrificed his job and legacy to defend the honor of a friend. He resigned after claiming that a victim of child sex trafficking, was "a member of (the trafficker's) Harem" and "entirely willing". Defending his dead friends honour might be to raise the question of whether it was in fact his friend who was involved. He essentially gave the "but she wanted it" defence, for a dead man, who is accused of raping a child whom he had "borrowed" from another dead man, who is also accused of raping children. > What kind of person do you want leading the FSF, a mealy-mouthed politician? Most people would probably just be happy with someone who doesn't say the following about prostitution, adultery, necrophilia, bestiality, possession of child pornography, and even incest and pedophilia (and I quote): > All of these acts should be legal as long as no one is coerced. They are illegal only because of prejudice and narrowmindedness.
- nahalay 7y ago
  "The most plausible scenario is that she presented herself to him as entirely willing," (Meaning not willing, emphasis on presented .. as) How do you sleep at night knowing you are smearing other people with obvious falsehoods?
- partialrecall 7y ago
  > "entirely willing" As I understand it, he opined that she may have been coerced into acting as though she were willing. Which is substantially different from your version of it.
- iamnotacrook 7y ago
  What's adultery doing on that list? Why shouldn't it be legal? Prostitution is legal in many places. Legalising it everywhere would help get rape cases reduced. Unless you're a vegan it's hard not to laugh at criticism of justification of bestiality. And regarding sex trafficking/rape - sex with a 17 year old is almost never seen as rape legally. That's a mostly US thing. The age of consent is 16 generally; lower than 16 in parts of Europe. Everyone's entitled to an opinion but criticising someone for defending actions which are legal and - subject to opinion - moral seems like a bit of a boring waste of time.
  - stephenr 7y ago
    I simply copied the whole quote so someone who wants to defend him won’t cry about partial quotes. But sure, carry on as usual because there’s always someone to defend RMS no matter how fucked his statements are.
    - seba_dos1 7y ago
      You copied two words out of a complex sentence and now you simply lie. Or maybe you don't really know what he said and that's the reason you can't understand why people may be defending him in this case?
      - stephenr 7y ago
        You need to read what you reply to. I quoted an entire statement made by RMS on his own website, claiming that amongst other things, child porn and fucking kids, should be legalised. Another poster asked why "adultery" was in the list of things in the quote, and I explained that I quoted the entire thing he said. So fuck you, read something before you want to claim people are lying.
        seba_dos1 7y ago
        As opposed to you apparently, I've done my share of reading already: https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September_2019_(Sex_between_an_adult_and_a_child_is_wrong) https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September... ...and you just straight out lied there: > He resigned after claiming that a victim of child sex trafficking, was "a member of (the trafficker's) Harem" and "entirely willing".
        stephenr 7y ago
        > As opposed to you apparently, I've done my share of reading already So, he says something a decade and a half ago, and then coincidentally 3 days after an email discussion where he defends a man alleged to have had sex with a victim of child sex trafficking, he suddenly "thinks adults should not do that". WELL WHAT A REVELATION. He called her a member of Epstein's Harem and said the "most likely" explanation is "she presented herself as entirely wiltingly"(sic) A harem is a collection of wives or concubines. How exactly is a child sex slave either of those things? RMS' theory is that a 70 year old man goes to a billionaire's private island and a 17 year old girl just happens to "present as willing" for sex and the guy asks no questions? As other's have said, even if he didn't know she's 17, and somehow it never occurred to him to ask, it's the plot for a bad porno, it's not a plausible chain of events in reality, and it's definitely not the most likely scenario.

stephenr 7y ago

> He just sacrificed his job and legacy to defend the honor of a friend. He resigned after claiming that a victim of child sex trafficking, was "a member of (the trafficker's) Harem" and "entirely willing". Defending his dead friends honour might be to raise the question of whether it was in fact his friend who was involved. He essentially gave the "but she wanted it" defence, for a dead man, who is accused of raping a child whom he had "borrowed" from another dead man, who is also accused of raping children. > What kind of person do you want leading the FSF, a mealy-mouthed politician? Most people would probably just be happy with someone who doesn't say the following about prostitution, adultery, necrophilia, bestiality, possession of child pornography, and even incest and pedophilia (and I quote): > All of these acts should be legal as long as no one is coerced. They are illegal only because of prejudice and narrowmindedness.

nahalay 7y ago
"The most plausible scenario is that she presented herself to him as entirely willing," (Meaning not willing, emphasis on presented .. as) How do you sleep at night knowing you are smearing other people with obvious falsehoods?
partialrecall 7y ago
> "entirely willing" As I understand it, he opined that she may have been coerced into acting as though she were willing. Which is substantially different from your version of it.
iamnotacrook 7y ago
What's adultery doing on that list? Why shouldn't it be legal? Prostitution is legal in many places. Legalising it everywhere would help get rape cases reduced. Unless you're a vegan it's hard not to laugh at criticism of justification of bestiality. And regarding sex trafficking/rape - sex with a 17 year old is almost never seen as rape legally. That's a mostly US thing. The age of consent is 16 generally; lower than 16 in parts of Europe. Everyone's entitled to an opinion but criticising someone for defending actions which are legal and - subject to opinion - moral seems like a bit of a boring waste of time.
- stephenr 7y ago
  I simply copied the whole quote so someone who wants to defend him won’t cry about partial quotes. But sure, carry on as usual because there’s always someone to defend RMS no matter how fucked his statements are.
  - seba_dos1 7y ago
    You copied two words out of a complex sentence and now you simply lie. Or maybe you don't really know what he said and that's the reason you can't understand why people may be defending him in this case?
    - stephenr 7y ago
      You need to read what you reply to. I quoted an entire statement made by RMS on his own website, claiming that amongst other things, child porn and fucking kids, should be legalised. Another poster asked why "adultery" was in the list of things in the quote, and I explained that I quoted the entire thing he said. So fuck you, read something before you want to claim people are lying.
      - seba_dos1 7y ago
        As opposed to you apparently, I've done my share of reading already: https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September_2019_(Sex_between_an_adult_and_a_child_is_wrong) https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September... ...and you just straight out lied there: > He resigned after claiming that a victim of child sex trafficking, was "a member of (the trafficker's) Harem" and "entirely willing".
        stephenr 7y ago
        > As opposed to you apparently, I've done my share of reading already So, he says something a decade and a half ago, and then coincidentally 3 days after an email discussion where he defends a man alleged to have had sex with a victim of child sex trafficking, he suddenly "thinks adults should not do that". WELL WHAT A REVELATION. He called her a member of Epstein's Harem and said the "most likely" explanation is "she presented herself as entirely wiltingly"(sic) A harem is a collection of wives or concubines. How exactly is a child sex slave either of those things? RMS' theory is that a 70 year old man goes to a billionaire's private island and a 17 year old girl just happens to "present as willing" for sex and the guy asks no questions? As other's have said, even if he didn't know she's 17, and somehow it never occurred to him to ask, it's the plot for a bad porno, it's not a plausible chain of events in reality, and it's definitely not the most likely scenario.