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> End of free speech is here. No, it's not. There have always been consequences to speech. Before social media, the traditional media would be the method of c

by cjslep 7y ago

> End of free speech is here. No, it's not. There have always been consequences to speech. Before social media, the traditional media would be the method of choice of stirring up people into a mob demanding resignations. It's not new. What is new, is that it is no longer a power centralized to owners of traditional media. It is now distributed, and thanks to Twitter specifically, in a way that promotes "tyrranny by the mob" which the founding fathers themselves abhorred. This isn't the death of free speech. Instead, view it as tech kicking itself in the balls because the people making software didn't understand how humans would leverage it at a society level scale. It's why many of us are working of federated but social public forms of media, like the 90s and early 2000's, because that worked at scale without a "tyrranny of the mob". All that being said, it is hard to be all "free speech is over" doom-sayer when the person in question has repeatedly (and we're talking decades) said creepy things that cumulatively sets up a pattern of behavior. This isn't Joe Shmoe hopping onto the internet the first time and losing his job. It's disingenuous to try to spin this event that way.

xlii 7y ago
> All that being said, it is hard to be all "free speech is over" doom-sayer when the person in question has repeatedly (and we're talking decades) said creepy things that cumulatively sets up a pattern of behavior. This isn't Joe Shmoe hopping onto the internet the first time and losing his job. It's disingenuous to try to spin this event that way. I think that’s the point here. RMS was always a creep who had very odd opinions on many different topics. I never liked the man nor thought much about his opinions and yet I was using software he created. He is creep, but he was tolerated. I find 2 perspectives here. First is - am I the creep right now who is being tolerated. Maybe? I don’t know 2050 standards. Maybe I am and will be removed because I shown 2050 Toxic Behavior for years, which might be criticizing social media. No idea. Second is - RMS is a human being. Not every one of us is pristine human being nor have luxury of being pristine and perfectly moral. Biology and past traumas do their thing. As far as I know, there aren’t any crimes he committed and if there were, he should be properly sentenced. If he was tolerated for past 30 years, shouldn’t it be more in sense of “ok dude, your time is up, here are your accolades, pack your stuff and have fun” instead of having witch hunt bringing every single piece of dirt people can find? Nah, that wouldn’t make sense, right? Free speech is not all over, because I’m typing this right now. I am aware, though, that criticizing RMS “process” might bring consequences to my life if the mob decides to target me. If this process progresses we’ll end up in the state where I won’t discuss anything online and keep all my knowledge and experience for myself. And there was a time in history where life was just like that.
- ryandrake 7y ago
  You really do need to be extra careful about what you write, because everything gets archived forever. You're not only being judged against today's norms and taboos but against the unknown taboos of years from now. Things that were once no big deal are career-ending today. Things that are no big deal today may be career-ending tomorrow. I have no idea what's going to be politically correct in 2039. Similarly, if some of the things I said and thought 20 years ago were documented and searchable, I'd never be able to get a job today. Society's standards shift, but its memory doesn't. Your best bet is to only ever express entirely uncontroversial vanilla opinions and hope even that is still acceptable in the decades to come.
  - cjslep 7y ago
    This is pure fearmongering. If you truly feel this way, you can put money where your mouth is and do actions to remove your very own words from the digital world (because you own the copyright to them if in the US, under the GDPR in the EU). Alternatively, you can support dismantling tools that build outrage mobs (Twitter) and be a proponent of good faith arguments with conduct becoming of earnest debate. Preventing the fearful future. I hope you can see why I think lazily lamenting some imagined dystopic future makes me sincerely question the actual genuineness of the underlying fear, and the lack of evidence makes me question the rigor with which it was dreamed up.

by cjslep 7y ago

xlii 7y ago

> All that being said, it is hard to be all "free speech is over" doom-sayer when the person in question has repeatedly (and we're talking decades) said creepy things that cumulatively sets up a pattern of behavior. This isn't Joe Shmoe hopping onto the internet the first time and losing his job. It's disingenuous to try to spin this event that way. I think that’s the point here. RMS was always a creep who had very odd opinions on many different topics. I never liked the man nor thought much about his opinions and yet I was using software he created. He is creep, but he was tolerated. I find 2 perspectives here. First is - am I the creep right now who is being tolerated. Maybe? I don’t know 2050 standards. Maybe I am and will be removed because I shown 2050 Toxic Behavior for years, which might be criticizing social media. No idea. Second is - RMS is a human being. Not every one of us is pristine human being nor have luxury of being pristine and perfectly moral. Biology and past traumas do their thing. As far as I know, there aren’t any crimes he committed and if there were, he should be properly sentenced. If he was tolerated for past 30 years, shouldn’t it be more in sense of “ok dude, your time is up, here are your accolades, pack your stuff and have fun” instead of having witch hunt bringing every single piece of dirt people can find? Nah, that wouldn’t make sense, right? Free speech is not all over, because I’m typing this right now. I am aware, though, that criticizing RMS “process” might bring consequences to my life if the mob decides to target me. If this process progresses we’ll end up in the state where I won’t discuss anything online and keep all my knowledge and experience for myself. And there was a time in history where life was just like that.

ryandrake 7y ago
You really do need to be extra careful about what you write, because everything gets archived forever. You're not only being judged against today's norms and taboos but against the unknown taboos of years from now. Things that were once no big deal are career-ending today. Things that are no big deal today may be career-ending tomorrow. I have no idea what's going to be politically correct in 2039. Similarly, if some of the things I said and thought 20 years ago were documented and searchable, I'd never be able to get a job today. Society's standards shift, but its memory doesn't. Your best bet is to only ever express entirely uncontroversial vanilla opinions and hope even that is still acceptable in the decades to come.
- cjslep 7y ago
  This is pure fearmongering. If you truly feel this way, you can put money where your mouth is and do actions to remove your very own words from the digital world (because you own the copyright to them if in the US, under the GDPR in the EU). Alternatively, you can support dismantling tools that build outrage mobs (Twitter) and be a proponent of good faith arguments with conduct becoming of earnest debate. Preventing the fearful future. I hope you can see why I think lazily lamenting some imagined dystopic future makes me sincerely question the actual genuineness of the underlying fear, and the lack of evidence makes me question the rigor with which it was dreamed up.