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> Communism is capitalism when something bad is happening Well, not the OP, but even the USSR did not call itself "communist" (it was a "socialist state on its

> Communism is capitalism when something bad is happening Well, not the OP, but even the USSR did not call itself "communist" (it was a "socialist state on its way to communism" or something like that). I don't think it's unfair to make a distinction between "communism" as described by Marx and the "communist countries" which were/are at best socialist (at worst plain capitalist with a veneer of state participation) and ruled by a "communist party". And I also think you can say that without attaching any value judgment to either cases: I'm not defending Marx's communism, it's an unreachable utopia and trying to implement it can only degenerate into the horrible examples we have seen.

anm89 7y ago
Fair, but my argument would be what wouldn't be capitalism by this definition. Literally every government post feudalism was capitalist if you are going to say Stalin, and the US and everything idealogically in between were capitalist. At that point I'd argue, whatever it is that this person dislikes, capitalism is just an empty word to represent it. "Reality", or "the world" would appear more accurate to me.
- cairo_x 7y ago
  I literally defined capitalism for you. I meant exactly what I said. As for state-capitalism, it is not some archaic historical revisionist concept, it has roots all the way back to the beginnings of Bolshevism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_capitalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_capitalism
- pasabagi 7y ago
  I think the point was, the socialist states of the soviet bloc were explicitly 'capitalist', and that was something they said about themselves. The point is, they thought about capitalism as something they were transitioning out of, and trying to actively replace. Capitalism is a pretty clear idea - it's a society characterized by wage labour. Non-capitalist societies don't have the concept of selling your labour-time for a wage. That's why feudal societies aren't capitalist (they didn't have clocks, for one thing). That's why the soviet block was capitalist.

anm89 7y ago

Fair, but my argument would be what wouldn't be capitalism by this definition. Literally every government post feudalism was capitalist if you are going to say Stalin, and the US and everything idealogically in between were capitalist. At that point I'd argue, whatever it is that this person dislikes, capitalism is just an empty word to represent it. "Reality", or "the world" would appear more accurate to me.

cairo_x 7y ago
I literally defined capitalism for you. I meant exactly what I said. As for state-capitalism, it is not some archaic historical revisionist concept, it has roots all the way back to the beginnings of Bolshevism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_capitalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_capitalism
pasabagi 7y ago
I think the point was, the socialist states of the soviet bloc were explicitly 'capitalist', and that was something they said about themselves. The point is, they thought about capitalism as something they were transitioning out of, and trying to actively replace. Capitalism is a pretty clear idea - it's a society characterized by wage labour. Non-capitalist societies don't have the concept of selling your labour-time for a wage. That's why feudal societies aren't capitalist (they didn't have clocks, for one thing). That's why the soviet block was capitalist.