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There are advantages to room besides financial return and social standing. I like having room for bookshelves, and a big desk, and a workshop. I like being able

There are advantages to room besides financial return and social standing. I like having room for bookshelves, and a big desk, and a workshop. I like being able to use power tools or blast music at any volume I want without disturbing the neighbors. I respect your lifestyle choice if "driving 15 minutes to get a gallon of milk" simply isn't convenient enough for you, but for me, bliss is not having to know my neighbors.

esotericn 7y ago
Spot on. To me the "driving 15 minutes to get a gallon of milk" thing is absurd on the face of it because it's missing that urban and rural life are fundamentally different in a lot of ways. If you live in the centre of a city, it's normal to live a sort of 'just-in-time' lifestyle whereby you just pop to the shops whenever to grab an ingredient, perhaps wander to a cafe for lunch, etc. In the country it's far more DIY. You have a big freezer / fridge and food stocks and just sort it out. If you want to cut up some wood, build a cabinet, whatever, you don't go to the community space or whatever, you do it on the land. And if you do go to the store - well you think about what you actually need to buy. The idea that people are burning a gallon of fuel solely to grab milk is absurd, more likely they just do without it until the next time they're in town, or prepare in advance.
- analog31 7y ago
  I'd like to see stats confirming that rural folks are that efficient with their lifestyles and vehicle / fuel use. One thing to consider is that most rural folks still work regular jobs, and commute to those jobs every day. At my workplace at the edge of town, the main difference between the city and rural folks is how many hours are spent commuting every week.
  - esotericn 7y ago
    Sure, so in that case you pick something up on the way to/from work. I'm not arguing that rural lifestyles have lower transport requirements in their totality - they obviously don't - just that the '15 mins to get X' example is absurd, because it describes a strawman journey that very rarely actually occurs. Even in my youth living in the suburbs of a small town in the UK you rarely went "in to town" to buy one thing because it's just not worth it.
chongli 7y ago
Does your house have a formal living room and formal dining room? North American houses often have these large rooms that people never use. Most people spend the vast majority of their waking time at home in the kitchen.
moneytide1 7y ago
There is something to be said about having extra space to reinforce mental fortitude. In the same way a cluttered desk or crowded workspace can provoke a feedback loop that causes a cluttered mind - a safe, familiar living space with plenty of room to pace, store, or host crowds can provide a certain mental clarity. Add to this the ability to step outside into a wide open environment with a view of a distant horizon. A liberated mind.
- dagw 7y ago
  Add to this the ability to step outside into a wide open environment with a view of a distant horizon. A liberated mind. Completely agree with this point, but it also completely separated from the size of your house. You can have a huge house and not be able to see the horizon because you're surrounded by equally huge houses in all directions. Or you can have 500 sq ft cabin on the edge of a lake that is the only building in a 3 mile radius.
  - moneytide1 7y ago
    This sounds like a symptom of compaction. Or the ratio of land to indoor foot (or meter) space is high enough to block each other's skyline, unless groups are willing to venture outside the entire neighborhood. But compaction is a preference for some.
dagw 7y ago
but for me, bliss is not having to know my neighbors. Even as a hard core urbanite, I can get that. For me bliss is having the option to walk everywhere I need to go. But a close second on my list would be living within walking distance of great skiing and/or kayaking and not being able to see my neighbors house from my property. What I don't get is the weird compromise of being so far out from the city you have to drive everywhere, but not so far that you're actually close to nature, and still surrounded by dozens and dozens of houses within spitting distance of your front door.

esotericn 7y ago

Spot on. To me the "driving 15 minutes to get a gallon of milk" thing is absurd on the face of it because it's missing that urban and rural life are fundamentally different in a lot of ways. If you live in the centre of a city, it's normal to live a sort of 'just-in-time' lifestyle whereby you just pop to the shops whenever to grab an ingredient, perhaps wander to a cafe for lunch, etc. In the country it's far more DIY. You have a big freezer / fridge and food stocks and just sort it out. If you want to cut up some wood, build a cabinet, whatever, you don't go to the community space or whatever, you do it on the land. And if you do go to the store - well you think about what you actually need to buy. The idea that people are burning a gallon of fuel solely to grab milk is absurd, more likely they just do without it until the next time they're in town, or prepare in advance.

analog31 7y ago
I'd like to see stats confirming that rural folks are that efficient with their lifestyles and vehicle / fuel use. One thing to consider is that most rural folks still work regular jobs, and commute to those jobs every day. At my workplace at the edge of town, the main difference between the city and rural folks is how many hours are spent commuting every week.
- esotericn 7y ago
  Sure, so in that case you pick something up on the way to/from work. I'm not arguing that rural lifestyles have lower transport requirements in their totality - they obviously don't - just that the '15 mins to get X' example is absurd, because it describes a strawman journey that very rarely actually occurs. Even in my youth living in the suburbs of a small town in the UK you rarely went "in to town" to buy one thing because it's just not worth it.

chongli 7y ago

Does your house have a formal living room and formal dining room? North American houses often have these large rooms that people never use. Most people spend the vast majority of their waking time at home in the kitchen.

moneytide1 7y ago

There is something to be said about having extra space to reinforce mental fortitude. In the same way a cluttered desk or crowded workspace can provoke a feedback loop that causes a cluttered mind - a safe, familiar living space with plenty of room to pace, store, or host crowds can provide a certain mental clarity. Add to this the ability to step outside into a wide open environment with a view of a distant horizon. A liberated mind.

dagw 7y ago
Add to this the ability to step outside into a wide open environment with a view of a distant horizon. A liberated mind. Completely agree with this point, but it also completely separated from the size of your house. You can have a huge house and not be able to see the horizon because you're surrounded by equally huge houses in all directions. Or you can have 500 sq ft cabin on the edge of a lake that is the only building in a 3 mile radius.
- moneytide1 7y ago
  This sounds like a symptom of compaction. Or the ratio of land to indoor foot (or meter) space is high enough to block each other's skyline, unless groups are willing to venture outside the entire neighborhood. But compaction is a preference for some.

dagw 7y ago

but for me, bliss is not having to know my neighbors. Even as a hard core urbanite, I can get that. For me bliss is having the option to walk everywhere I need to go. But a close second on my list would be living within walking distance of great skiing and/or kayaking and not being able to see my neighbors house from my property. What I don't get is the weird compromise of being so far out from the city you have to drive everywhere, but not so far that you're actually close to nature, and still surrounded by dozens and dozens of houses within spitting distance of your front door.