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I’m allowed to criticize him after reading what he actually wrote, right? Because I did and came away from it with the conclusion that he’s evil and shouldn’t b

I’m allowed to criticize him after reading what he actually wrote, right? Because I did and came away from it with the conclusion that he’s evil and shouldn’t be anywhere near anything resembling a leadership position.

scrollaway 7y ago
He is many things, and shouldn't have been in a leadership position for a long time, but he is definitely not evil. I have a hard time even imagining how you reach the conclusion that he might be evil. Even the worst out of context headlines on his recent quotes just put him in the "gross" category. I say this, and I'm very glad he stepped down. I've argued for years that he should have stepped down a long time ago.
- mikeash 7y ago
  Evil is fundamentally a lack of empathy and I see no empathy from this man. He’s not a cackling crazy Hitler figure, but he seems to have a difficult time figuring out just what the problem is with having sex with children and with child slaves, and chooses to dedicate a great deal of mental energy defending the more powerful people in this scenario.
  - scrollaway 7y ago
    The definition of evil is always … a heated topic, but the common theme usually is that the suffering evil inflicts is not accidental. In your reply here, you're describing sociopathy. I wouldn't describe Stallman as a sociopath but I could definitely see the arguments for it. But even the most repulsive things I've seen this man say/do never got me to think "Yeah, this dude wants others to suffer". Edit: And no, I don't think he has a difficult time "figuring out what the problem is".
    - mikeash 7y ago
      I think that’s a facile Hollywood idea of evil. People like that exist, but plenty of evil people don’t care about suffering. A psychologist assigned to the Nuremberg trials put it better than I ever could. “In my work with the defendants (at the Nuremberg Trails 1945-1949) I was searching for the nature of evil and I now think I have come close to defining it. A lack of empathy. It’s the one characteristic that connects all the defendants, a genuine incapacity to feel with their fellow men. Evil, I think, is the absence of empathy.”
      - scrollaway 7y ago
        Fair. Putting aside the word itself though, I don't think Stallman lacks empathy. What he does lack, IMHO, is a huge amount of basic, day-to-day understanding of how the world works. Such as the power dynamics of teenagers in the modern world. Things he's completely incapable of understanding because he chooses to isolate himself and live in an absurdly eccentric way. For fucks sake, have you seen how he browses the internet? [1] He chooses to live that way because, for him, every single issue seems to be a hill he's ready to die on. It was only a matter of time until the hill was bad enough for this to happen. Still, I maintain he's not evil, neither by your definition nor mine. [1] https://stallman.org/stallman-computing.html https://stallman.org/stallman-computing.html
      - AstralStorm 7y ago
        Thus, American justice system is evil? Law knows no empathy. Politics is even worse. Media didn't consider it worth it a split second of thought to gauge impact on life of this man.
        mikeash 7y ago
        Of course. The American justice system is horrendously evil.
  - js8 7y ago
    You can find plenty of evidence of Stallman's empathy in his political notes: https://stallman.org/notes/ https://stallman.org/notes/
  - whytaka 7y ago
    While I'm sympathetic to this definition, I think you've just condemned most of the world as evil.
- solipsism 7y ago
  What about his less recent quotes? I am skeptical of the claim that voluntarily pedophilia harms children. The arguments that it causes harm seem to be based on cases which aren't voluntary, which are then stretched by parents who are horrified by the idea that their little baby is maturing. By my book, it's okay to call that evil.
  - scrollaway 7y ago
    Again, gross.
    - solipsism 7y ago
      Thinking it's okay for adults to have sex with children, as long as the children are "willing", is just gross?
      - scrollaway 7y ago
        I was only disputing the "evil" term, but I dont want to do that anymore. See other reply for more thoughts.
  - sincerely 7y ago
    He doesn't think that anymore: >Through personal conversations in recent years, I've learned to understand how sex with a child can harm per psychologically. This changed my mind about the matter: I think adults should not do that. I am grateful for the conversations that enabled me to understand why.
    - solipsism 7y ago
      He posted that two days ago. It's a bit convenient, isn't it?

scrollaway 7y ago

He is many things, and shouldn't have been in a leadership position for a long time, but he is definitely not evil. I have a hard time even imagining how you reach the conclusion that he might be evil. Even the worst out of context headlines on his recent quotes just put him in the "gross" category. I say this, and I'm very glad he stepped down. I've argued for years that he should have stepped down a long time ago.

mikeash 7y ago
Evil is fundamentally a lack of empathy and I see no empathy from this man. He’s not a cackling crazy Hitler figure, but he seems to have a difficult time figuring out just what the problem is with having sex with children and with child slaves, and chooses to dedicate a great deal of mental energy defending the more powerful people in this scenario.
- scrollaway 7y ago
  The definition of evil is always … a heated topic, but the common theme usually is that the suffering evil inflicts is not accidental. In your reply here, you're describing sociopathy. I wouldn't describe Stallman as a sociopath but I could definitely see the arguments for it. But even the most repulsive things I've seen this man say/do never got me to think "Yeah, this dude wants others to suffer". Edit: And no, I don't think he has a difficult time "figuring out what the problem is".
  - mikeash 7y ago
    I think that’s a facile Hollywood idea of evil. People like that exist, but plenty of evil people don’t care about suffering. A psychologist assigned to the Nuremberg trials put it better than I ever could. “In my work with the defendants (at the Nuremberg Trails 1945-1949) I was searching for the nature of evil and I now think I have come close to defining it. A lack of empathy. It’s the one characteristic that connects all the defendants, a genuine incapacity to feel with their fellow men. Evil, I think, is the absence of empathy.”
    - scrollaway 7y ago
      Fair. Putting aside the word itself though, I don't think Stallman lacks empathy. What he does lack, IMHO, is a huge amount of basic, day-to-day understanding of how the world works. Such as the power dynamics of teenagers in the modern world. Things he's completely incapable of understanding because he chooses to isolate himself and live in an absurdly eccentric way. For fucks sake, have you seen how he browses the internet? [1] He chooses to live that way because, for him, every single issue seems to be a hill he's ready to die on. It was only a matter of time until the hill was bad enough for this to happen. Still, I maintain he's not evil, neither by your definition nor mine. [1] https://stallman.org/stallman-computing.html https://stallman.org/stallman-computing.html
    - AstralStorm 7y ago
      Thus, American justice system is evil? Law knows no empathy. Politics is even worse. Media didn't consider it worth it a split second of thought to gauge impact on life of this man.
      - mikeash 7y ago
        Of course. The American justice system is horrendously evil.
- js8 7y ago
  You can find plenty of evidence of Stallman's empathy in his political notes: https://stallman.org/notes/ https://stallman.org/notes/
- whytaka 7y ago
  While I'm sympathetic to this definition, I think you've just condemned most of the world as evil.
solipsism 7y ago
What about his less recent quotes? I am skeptical of the claim that voluntarily pedophilia harms children. The arguments that it causes harm seem to be based on cases which aren't voluntary, which are then stretched by parents who are horrified by the idea that their little baby is maturing. By my book, it's okay to call that evil.
- scrollaway 7y ago
  Again, gross.
  - solipsism 7y ago
    Thinking it's okay for adults to have sex with children, as long as the children are "willing", is just gross?
    - scrollaway 7y ago
      I was only disputing the "evil" term, but I dont want to do that anymore. See other reply for more thoughts.
- sincerely 7y ago
  He doesn't think that anymore: >Through personal conversations in recent years, I've learned to understand how sex with a child can harm per psychologically. This changed my mind about the matter: I think adults should not do that. I am grateful for the conversations that enabled me to understand why.
  - solipsism 7y ago
    He posted that two days ago. It's a bit convenient, isn't it?