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I'm really hesitant to wade into this. I think resigning was the right move for Stallman. What he actually said, without Vice editing the quote, is: We can i
by frio 7y ago
I'm really hesitant to wade into this. I think resigning was the right move for Stallman.
What he actually said, without Vice editing the quote, is:
We can imagine many scenarios, but the most plausible scenario is that she presented herself to him as entirely willing. Assuming she was being coerced by Epstein, he would have had every reason to tell her to conceal that from most of his associates.
From the email thread reproduced in its entirety by Vice at https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6405929-09132019142056-0001.html?embed=true&responsive=false&sidebar=false https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6405929-091320191420....
In my estimation, there's a big difference between Vice's framing of "Stallman said she was 'entirely willing'" and the full quote above. There are, of course, other poor comments in that thread.
EDIT -- I mention Vice specifically, because their article (which I'd read earlier) has similar phrasing to the wording used here (https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/mbm74x/computer-scientist-richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-over-epstein-comments https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/mbm74x/computer-scientist... -- "Stallman said the “most plausible scenario” is that one of Epstein’s underage victims was “entirely willing.”"), and I'd thought the quote that codesushi used was from that publication. On double checking, it might be unfair to single that publication out for the given quote.
- teh_klev 7y agoThanks for the link, now I have some context.
- codesushi42 7y agoI see no real difference. He said that. And there are even worse comments that he made in that thread.
- throwaway17746 7y agoThere's a big difference. "Presented as" does not mean "was", and the sentence immediately after that makes it clear that he didn't mean it as such. There are other pretty bad comments, yes. If most of the coverage focused on those rather than something he didn't actually say, I wouldn't have as much of a problem with it.
- veemacs 7y agoHere here, RMS is a weirdo but he's being vilified for things that do not effect his job in any way, he is by no means a representative for MIT, and his opinions on unrelated matters (no matter how misguided they might be) do not change his ability to represent the FSF.
- throwaway17746 7y ago>and his opinions on unrelated matters (no matter how misguided they might be) do not change his ability to represent the FSF Now that I can't say I totally agree with. The free software movement is a political movement, and as such his statements and opinions on social issues of all kinds have a deep impact on whether or not he can be a good representative of the FSF. But we should at least be truthful about his statements and opinions!
- frio 7y agoThanks. I know we're supposed to just upvote when someone hits the nail on the head, but this comment summarises my internal conflict on this perfectly.
- williamDafoe 7y agoHe is a beneficiary of having a free office at MIT like a faculty member on sabbatical there, at the recommendation of his friend, Gerald Sussman.
- codesushi42 7y ago"Presented as" does not mean "was" It can mean that. sentence immediately after that makes it clear that he didn't mean it as such. No, it is debatable. The following sentence does not clearly state they were unwilling. Another Stallman gem: I am skeptical of the claim that voluntarily pedophilia harms children. The arguments that it causes harm seem to be based on cases which aren't voluntary, which are then stretched by parents who are horrified by the idea that their little baby is maturing.
- michaelmrose 7y agoSupposing that Epstein would have told her to act willing and supposing that she was willing are two entirely different things. The first is what was actually said the latter is a lie being repeated.
- codesushi42 7y agoIt is true, I am tired of Stallman defenders repeating the same lie. "The most plausible scenario is that she presented herself to him as entirely willing," Stallman wrote in his post last Wednesday. "Assuming she was being coerced by Epstein, he would have had every reason to tell her to conceal that from most of his associates. I’ve concluded from various examples of accusation inflation that it is absolutely wrong to use the term 'sexual assault' in an accusation." https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/09/17/richard_stallman_interview/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/09/17/richard_stallman_in...