8 ms·
Endurance Running Hypothesis
- JPKab 7y agoAn excellent book on this topic from about 10 years ago: Born to Run
- starpilot 7y agoI've inferred the entire contents of the book from the plethora of HN comments discussing it.
- dfc 7y agoFWIW I doubt it. This has nothing to do with you and everything to do eith the book. It's a great book and the comments I have seen here only hit on a few central points of the book.
- signa11 7y agoreading by proxy (by couple of orders of magnitude) is no substitute for the real thing. you probably would be better off reading top reviews on amazon :) or even the blinkist app for that matter. but then again, ‘reading someones description of sistine chapel michelangelo paintings vs seeing it yourself’ and all that... edit: minor details
- SmellyGeekBoy 7y agoThis was my opinion too until I read it. Definitely well worth a read if you're at all interested in running, fitness and human evolution. The autobiographical story parts are great reading, too.
- davidw 7y agoI don't care at all for running (I'm a bike guy), but it's still a fun read.
- SmellyGeekBoy 7y agoIt's a really fascinating story on top of all of the running stuff.
- SEJeff 7y agoIt is a fantastic story, even if you don't care about running. I was shocked that it wasn't a documentary format so much as a very raw and emotional first person account.
- otroqueccorre 7y agoI heard about it, is it good book?
- 2wrist 7y agoA really good read, quite interesting ideas and it certainly changed my outlook on running and movement.
- dfc 7y agoIf you like Born to Run you should check out Natural Born Heroes if you have not already read it. It's sort of the WW2 variant of Born to Run.
- pferde 7y agoAlso an interesting TED talk by the author: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-iGZPtWXzE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-iGZPtWXzE
- tcmb 7y ago...and two talks at "Authors at Google" (apparently he spoke there twice within one week): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_usxrvKvus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_usxrvKvus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXRe0N1hejE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXRe0N1hejE
- gherkinnn 7y agoI only got past the first 1/3 of the book. Extended use of the noble savage trope mixed with iconoclastic views on brands like Nike might make the reader feel like they’ve entered a fresh new world. And yet I found zero value for someone who wants to improve his capacity as a runner/athlete. The author is a good storyteller but that’s where it ends. If one is interested in tearing down current sporty world views, might I suggest going after the HIT fad?
- Retric 7y agoDid you mean HIIT? Because that’s well supported by numerous studies and is unlikely to go away. The tradeoffs seem to be reduced weight loss for improved cardiovascular fitness.
- gherkinnn 7y agoHIIT, yes. To clarify: I mean specifically the over-emphasis on intensity by amateurs for competitions longer than a few minutes.
- Retric 7y agoFair enough, various forms of interval training have been commonly used to condition for endurance sports all the way back to the 1950’s. It’s all about building aerobic capacity via anaerobic exercise. But, the current spike is probably going to go away.
- igouy 7y ago> … someone who wants to improve his capacity as a runner/athlete… "Running Rewired: Reinvent Your Run for Stability, Strength, and Speed" https://books.google.com/books?id=epZUDwAAQBAJ https://books.google.com/books?id=epZUDwAAQBAJ
- igouy 7y agoOne side of "Born to Run" is the first-person story; another side is gonzo journalism / supposedly factual reporting. How well does the reporting fact-check? From "Born to Run": "But what surprised Dr. Marti … was the fact that the most common variable among the casualties wasn't training surface, running speed, weekly mileage, or "competitive training motivation." It wasn't even body weight, or a history of previous injury: it was the price of the shoe." page 172 From Dr Marti's report: "Occurrence of jogging injuries was independently associated with higher weekly mileage (P < 0.001), history of previous running injuries (P < 0.001), and competitive training motivation (P = 0.03)." https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/036354658801600316 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/036354658801600316
- lemm 7y agoFurthermore: "Injuries were not significantly related to race running speed, training surface, characteristics of running shoes, or relative weight."
- igouy 7y agoIndeed. Perhaps, somewhere, Dr. Marti did in-fact express surprise about "the most common variable" — whatever that means. However, at-best Christopher McDougall seems to have chosen not to report conclusions that could have helped some runners avoid injury.
- igouy 4y agofyi I found another primary source: Marti, B. (1989). "Relationships between Running Injuries and Running Shoes — Results of a Study of 5,000 Participants of a 16-km Run — The May 1984 Berne Grand Prix". In Segesser, B.; Pförringer, W. (eds.). The Shoe in Sport. pp. 256–265. https://archive.org/details/shoeinsport0000unse_r2y3/page/256/mode/2up?q=%22Relationships+between+running+injuries+and+running+shoes%22 https://archive.org/details/shoeinsport0000unse_r2y3/page/25... In the 1984 Bern 16 km race questionnaire, runners who had no shoe brand preference and presumably changed brands frequently had significantly fewer running injuries. There was also some correlation between higher shoe price and increased injury. "It is probably incorrect, however, to interpret this surprising finding to mean that more expensive shoes cause more running injuries…". That group was 1 1⁄2 minutes slower than expected from their training and had a higher proportion of orthotics use. It may well be that runners with existing injuries hope that expensive shoes will fix their body.
- kylek 7y agoMade me think of the Tarahumara[0]. >> The Tarahumara word for themselves, Rarámuri, means "runners on foot" or "those who run fast" in their native tongue according to some early ethnographers like Norwegian Carl Lumholtz, though this interpretation has not been fully agreed upon. With widely dispersed settlements, these people developed a tradition of long-distance running up to 200 miles (320 km) in one session, over a period of two days through their homeland of rough canyon country, for inter-village communication, transportation, and hunting. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rar%C3%A1muri https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rar%C3%A1muri
- freddie_mercury 7y agoBy "made you think" you mean it explicitly mentions them, along with many other examples. The link you provide is even in the OP.
- kylek 7y agoWhoops, you caught me skimming a wikipedia article :)
- sysadmindotfail 7y agoAlthough listed (but not having any references), a notable Rarámuri member is María Lorena Ramírez, who at 22 years old ran (and won) a 50k in 'traditional' clothing and sandals. https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/05/24/inenglish/1495618559_311854.html https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/05/24/inenglish/1495618559_31... "Instead of sports clothes and running shoes, she is dressed in a skirt and a pair of sandals with soles made from recycled tire rubber." This is described in detail in the above mentioned book, which is a very good read.
- hudibras 7y agoPutting a link to the "Lykov Family" Wikipedia page in the middle of this article is just plain evil; I'm trying to get some work done here!
- gota 7y agoI was captured by the same thread; I was particularly looking forward for any material on how/if their language diverged from the general population's. Over this long span of time, even in such a small group, do they end up speaking a dialect? Couldn't find material on that, still looking
- wbrasky 7y agoThe Lykov Family have been well-covered. VICE had a decent piece covering the sole remaining member: Agafia. Their speech did somewhat devolve, and children born out in the taiga had developed their own cooing pidgin that they spoke to each other, IIRC.
- accounn 7y agoRunning bellow 14 km/h is not running.
- michaelt 7y agoThe fact you had to use the word 'running' to describe the thing you claim is 'not running' makes me skeptical about your claim.
- accounn 7y agoPeople who think they run they actually don't.
- adrianN 7y agoRunning is more about the gait that the speed.
- heavenlyblue 7y agoRunning below 15 km/h is not running.
- baud147258 7y agoI'm happy when I run at 10 km/h, which is already a big physical effort for me, so stfu.
- blatchcorn 7y agoYup - our ability to store large amounts of glycogen, sweat and long legs are very likely to be evolutionary traits that made it easier to hunt by chasing after animals without these traits and tiring them out to the point they cannot escape
- igouy 7y agoSo when we look at a "primate family tree coloured based on sweating ability" …? https://www.filthymonkeymen.com/2018/05/08/humans-sweat-like-chimps-to-cope-with-heat/ https://www.filthymonkeymen.com/2018/05/08/humans-sweat-like...
- igouy 7y agofwiw "We suggest that increases in eccrine function are not dependent upon increased physical activity or reduced body hair. Therefore, enhanced sweating capacity may have evolved in Australopithecus or even earlier hominins, driven largely by climate. The additional increase in modern human sweating capacity evolved later, concurrent with long distance walking and running." page 40 "The evolution of eccrine sweat glands in human and nonhuman primates" https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Andrew_Best4/publication/323399145_The_evolution_of_eccrine_sweat_glands_in_human_and_nonhuman_primates/links/5aa2cca2a6fdccd544b7555c/The-evolution-of-eccrine-sweat-glands-in-human-and-nonhuman-primates.pdf https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Andrew_Best4/publicatio...
- HNLurker2 7y agoOh God I should get back on running
- antoineMoPa 7y agoJust Do It™
- ycosynot 7y agoWhat about CMS (electrostimulation with electrodes), can it raise the energy level and such like raw exercising? I'm becoming very intrigued about CMS, as a 'low energy individual'.
- AlexTWithBeard 7y agoLast time I researched the topic, the conclusion was the level of simulation was too low in comparison with a real exercise. It still has its use in physiotherapy and rehabilitation though. My answer to low energy is coffee. Do stupid things faster (c)!
- mhb 7y agoAlso see the excellent This American Life podcast: Running After Antelope Stories of people engaged in a battle with nature — a battle they don't stand much chance of winning. Most of the show is Scott Carrier's story of trying for twelve years to chase down and catch an antelope by foot. https://www.thisamericanlife.org/80/running-after-antelope https://www.thisamericanlife.org/80/running-after-antelope
- Fricken 7y agoThis video of a San hunter chasing down a Kudu is pretty good: https://youtu.be/826HMLoiE_o https://youtu.be/826HMLoiE_o
- grecy 7y agoI was lucky enough to spend time with the San people, and it was one of the most moving experiences of my life. http://theroadchoseme.com/the-juhoansi-living-san-museum http://theroadchoseme.com/the-juhoansi-living-san-museum
- michaelterryio 7y agoA few years ago some Kenyans chased down a couple cheetahs: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-24953910 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-24953910
- igouy 7y agoHunters or Scavengers? "Rewards of Scavenging … I spent about seven months simulating passive scavenging by waiting until the carnivores had eaten their fill and moved off, and then documenting how much meat and marrow was left on carcasses. … An entire zebra carcass could yield almost 15 kilograms of meat in scraps of various sizes." "Meat-Eating Among the Earliest Humans" Briana Pobiner, March-April 2016, Volume 104, Number 2, Page 110. https://www.americanscientist.org/article/meat-eating-among-the-earliest-humans https://www.americanscientist.org/article/meat-eating-among-...
- m463 7y agoWe also have hidden adaptations to water: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diving_reflex https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diving_reflex There is actually a hypothesis related to this called the Aquatic Ape Hypothesis, but (IMHO) it seems to go too far. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquatic_ape_hypothesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquatic_ape_hypothesis