3 ms·

I'd say recent statements more accurately reflect somebody's current beliefs than old statements. Considering how badly he's been recently slandered by media

I'd say recent statements more accurately reflect somebody's current beliefs than old statements. Considering how badly he's been recently slandered by media outlets leaving out context and mischaracterizing his remarks, I am disturbed by your willingness to exclude that context from your previous comment.

ceejayoz 7y ago
As a general rule, I tend to give more credit to consistent and freely offered opinions espoused over years than a sudden conversion immediately after a PR crisis. There's a famous saying: "When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time."
- partialrecall 7y ago
  So you believe Stallman's statements indicate he's a pedophile, not merely somebody with a long and established history of being tactless? Because I'd say there is a hell of a lot more evidence that he's tactless due to being neuroatypical. Maybe that makes him a bad leader, but it surely doesn't make him evil.
  - ceejayoz 7y ago
    > So you believe Stallman's statements indicate he's a pedophile... I think you're mixing me up with another commenter.
    - partialrecall 7y ago
      You're right, I apologize.
  - samantohermes 7y ago
    His statements aren't merely socially unappropriated, they are grossly logically incorrect.
    - geaardheid 7y ago
      First, actually one couldn't know are them correct or not, considering heavy emotional involvement of the opponents. Second, the concept of the childhood is quite misdefined. Third, it is very hard to check correctness of such psychological statement, considering the large amount of influencing factors. Fourth, what do you mean by 'grossly wrong'? Is '2x2=5' grossly wrong, or just a bit wrong? Or what about Borsuk's conjecture? Is it grossly wrong, or may be it is wrong in some different manner ? As Richard Feynman said, nature can't be fooled; but when one trying to play a role of nature's Spanish inquisition, presuming that he or she couldn't be wrong him- or herself, it afaik worsens the thing a lot.
  - querulous 7y ago
    i believe stallman's statements indicate he thinks sex with a consenting child is okay. why does he have to have committed a crime to condemn that view?
    - seba_dos1 7y ago
      "Many years ago I posted that I could not see anything wrong about sex between an adult and a child, if the child accepted it. Through personal conversations in recent years, I've learned to understand how sex with a child can harm per psychologically. This changed my mind about the matter: I think adults should not do that. I am grateful for the conversations that enabled me to understand why." - Richard M. Stallman, 14 September 2019 https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September_2019_(Sex_between_an_adult_and_a_child_is_wrong) https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September...
- tw20190916jobdg 7y ago
  How do you reconcile (a) your implication that Stallman is flip-flopping due to public pressure with (b) Stallman's lifetime as a Diogenean polemic who has been shown to stand by his beliefs, no matter how unpopular?
  - ceejayoz 7y ago
    There's a difference between "unpopular but everyone knows I'm quirky" and "this might be an existential threat to my ability to keep running the FSF etc.".
    - tw20190916jobdg 7y ago
      Two things: 1. Stallman already has a lifetime of of examples of somewhat poor leadership within the GNU project, resulting in decisions that have compromised GNU and FSF's trajectory (compared to their potential), so once again, these are not new circumstances 2. How is Stallman doing FSF under threat here?
      - ceejayoz 7y ago
        > How is Stallman doing FSF under threat here? He resigned from the FSF presidency and board yesterday a few hours after my comment, which should answer that question.
  - rongenre 7y ago
    He's not in jail, he can continue on twitter all he wants.
    - tw20190916jobdg 7y ago
      If that's supposed to somehow make sense as a reply to what I wrote, you're going to have to explain it.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
cannonedhamster 7y ago
They were up on his website last I checked which was a week or two ago. I think that's considered recent.
- partialrecall 7y ago
  Failure to delete old blog entries that he has nevertheless disavowed negates that disavowal? I don't agree.

ceejayoz 7y ago

As a general rule, I tend to give more credit to consistent and freely offered opinions espoused over years than a sudden conversion immediately after a PR crisis. There's a famous saying: "When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time."

partialrecall 7y ago
So you believe Stallman's statements indicate he's a pedophile, not merely somebody with a long and established history of being tactless? Because I'd say there is a hell of a lot more evidence that he's tactless due to being neuroatypical. Maybe that makes him a bad leader, but it surely doesn't make him evil.
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  > So you believe Stallman's statements indicate he's a pedophile... I think you're mixing me up with another commenter.
  - partialrecall 7y ago
    You're right, I apologize.
- samantohermes 7y ago
  His statements aren't merely socially unappropriated, they are grossly logically incorrect.
  - geaardheid 7y ago
    First, actually one couldn't know are them correct or not, considering heavy emotional involvement of the opponents. Second, the concept of the childhood is quite misdefined. Third, it is very hard to check correctness of such psychological statement, considering the large amount of influencing factors. Fourth, what do you mean by 'grossly wrong'? Is '2x2=5' grossly wrong, or just a bit wrong? Or what about Borsuk's conjecture? Is it grossly wrong, or may be it is wrong in some different manner ? As Richard Feynman said, nature can't be fooled; but when one trying to play a role of nature's Spanish inquisition, presuming that he or she couldn't be wrong him- or herself, it afaik worsens the thing a lot.
- querulous 7y ago
  i believe stallman's statements indicate he thinks sex with a consenting child is okay. why does he have to have committed a crime to condemn that view?
  - seba_dos1 7y ago
    "Many years ago I posted that I could not see anything wrong about sex between an adult and a child, if the child accepted it. Through personal conversations in recent years, I've learned to understand how sex with a child can harm per psychologically. This changed my mind about the matter: I think adults should not do that. I am grateful for the conversations that enabled me to understand why." - Richard M. Stallman, 14 September 2019 https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September_2019_(Sex_between_an_adult_and_a_child_is_wrong) https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September...
tw20190916jobdg 7y ago
How do you reconcile (a) your implication that Stallman is flip-flopping due to public pressure with (b) Stallman's lifetime as a Diogenean polemic who has been shown to stand by his beliefs, no matter how unpopular?
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  There's a difference between "unpopular but everyone knows I'm quirky" and "this might be an existential threat to my ability to keep running the FSF etc.".
  - tw20190916jobdg 7y ago
    Two things: 1. Stallman already has a lifetime of of examples of somewhat poor leadership within the GNU project, resulting in decisions that have compromised GNU and FSF's trajectory (compared to their potential), so once again, these are not new circumstances 2. How is Stallman doing FSF under threat here?
    - ceejayoz 7y ago
      > How is Stallman doing FSF under threat here? He resigned from the FSF presidency and board yesterday a few hours after my comment, which should answer that question.
- rongenre 7y ago
  He's not in jail, he can continue on twitter all he wants.
  - tw20190916jobdg 7y ago
    If that's supposed to somehow make sense as a reply to what I wrote, you're going to have to explain it.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

cannonedhamster 7y ago

They were up on his website last I checked which was a week or two ago. I think that's considered recent.

partialrecall 7y ago
Failure to delete old blog entries that he has nevertheless disavowed negates that disavowal? I don't agree.