3 ms·

I'm not so sure. I heard (second-hand anecdote, sources welcome) that primary education in the US is of poor quality - that seems like a more likely cause. Unle

by deogeo 7y ago

I'm not so sure. I heard (second-hand anecdote, sources welcome) that primary education in the US is of poor quality - that seems like a more likely cause. Unless we blame anti-intellectualism for that poor quality. Edit: dlp211 inspired me to find a source, and it confirms his suspicions - US education seems reasonably good: https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2010/dec/07/world-education-rankings-maths-science-reading https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2010/dec/07/world-... Even so, a few doubts remain. Could the US have good students on average, but fail to fully utilize its more talented students?

hhs 7y ago
I wonder if a poor level of civics education could also be a factor?
kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
"Math class is tough" Barbie is a byproduct of this attitude. It directly feeds into under-performance in academics. The education system itself isn't broken so much as expectations are low to let the less studious scrape by. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teen_Talk_Barbie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teen_Talk_Barbie
- souprock 7y ago
  If you want to get elected, you don't propose to expel the students who are performing below average. They have parents who vote and/or cry on the TV news. It was funny and sad to see standards getting set, then reduced. We know what is required. Various states set graduation requirements at that, with a test to be passed, and then backed off when they realized that many would not graduate. Since it isn't politically acceptable to deny graduation to anybody, we have no standards.
  - darkmighty 7y ago
    I think that might not be approaching it form the best angle? Perhaps the best question is: how to motivate students to excel academically, and give them opportunity to study to match their motivation? (instead of having poorly performing students be punished) If you look at it that way, I think the solutions are much more akin to better motivating students, creating better environments (if they don't have them at home). Motivation is both from showing better job opportunities to be had (higher salaries, employability), the practical value of intellectual and scientific education (to daily life decisions, participating well in democracy -- which cannot work without well educated citizens), and finally an intrinsic value of education -- showing how beautiful intellectual fields are, from a fun approach to mathematics education, to literature, etc. Environments is making sure the school and classmate interactions are positive, possibly making available study spaces outside regular class time, elective extracurricular activities (programming classes, etc), etc. Both of those probably go through investing heavily in teacher salaries and adequate teacher education. It's a societal commitment, really.
dlp211 7y ago
I feel like this is one of those things that everyone knows but just isn't true.
germinalphrase 7y ago
It’s a educational quality distribution problem. States/regions with good education rival the best in the world, but that’s balanced against states/regions that have middling and poor education. The US is a big country, and it has a shaky history when it comes to providing high quality education for ALL citizens.
purplezooey 7y ago
It's of very poor quality since we've had Prop 13, Howard Jarvis and all the same in the lesser states

by deogeo 7y ago

hhs 7y ago

I wonder if a poor level of civics education could also be a factor?

kevin_thibedeau 7y ago

"Math class is tough" Barbie is a byproduct of this attitude. It directly feeds into under-performance in academics. The education system itself isn't broken so much as expectations are low to let the less studious scrape by. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teen_Talk_Barbie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teen_Talk_Barbie

souprock 7y ago
If you want to get elected, you don't propose to expel the students who are performing below average. They have parents who vote and/or cry on the TV news. It was funny and sad to see standards getting set, then reduced. We know what is required. Various states set graduation requirements at that, with a test to be passed, and then backed off when they realized that many would not graduate. Since it isn't politically acceptable to deny graduation to anybody, we have no standards.
- darkmighty 7y ago
  I think that might not be approaching it form the best angle? Perhaps the best question is: how to motivate students to excel academically, and give them opportunity to study to match their motivation? (instead of having poorly performing students be punished) If you look at it that way, I think the solutions are much more akin to better motivating students, creating better environments (if they don't have them at home). Motivation is both from showing better job opportunities to be had (higher salaries, employability), the practical value of intellectual and scientific education (to daily life decisions, participating well in democracy -- which cannot work without well educated citizens), and finally an intrinsic value of education -- showing how beautiful intellectual fields are, from a fun approach to mathematics education, to literature, etc. Environments is making sure the school and classmate interactions are positive, possibly making available study spaces outside regular class time, elective extracurricular activities (programming classes, etc), etc. Both of those probably go through investing heavily in teacher salaries and adequate teacher education. It's a societal commitment, really.

dlp211 7y ago

I feel like this is one of those things that everyone knows but just isn't true.

germinalphrase 7y ago

It’s a educational quality distribution problem. States/regions with good education rival the best in the world, but that’s balanced against states/regions that have middling and poor education. The US is a big country, and it has a shaky history when it comes to providing high quality education for ALL citizens.

purplezooey 7y ago

It's of very poor quality since we've had Prop 13, Howard Jarvis and all the same in the lesser states