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You said all the other answers simply betray personal value systems, and not to crucify your list, but your list is essentially one of (Northern) Euro nations,

You said all the other answers simply betray personal value systems, and not to crucify your list, but your list is essentially one of (Northern) Euro nations, plus Japan. Then you cite poetic, philosophical, artistic, and scientific achievement as your criteria, but leave out countries like India, Russia, and China. Could you explain your rationale here?

52-6F-62 7y ago
I jotted it down in seconds and have limited experience with some parts of the world. India absolutely has one of the longest poetic traditions and it fascinates me endlessly. I’d have been remiss to say that’s all that qualifies in my mind. That’s why I said it was not at all the end of what I’d consider an intellectual society. I’m hesitant to bring present-day Russia into it as I qualified with “continuing”. I say this as someone who studied Russian literature when I was younger. Again, please don’t discount my qualifiers above. It was by no means a survey list—just meant to illustrate my main point with societies I do have experience with.
- oarabbus_ 7y ago
  Thanks for the explanation. I realize that my post may have come off as antagonistic (the downvotes from others certainly seem to suggest that), but really I was just trying to understand your rationale. I edited my post to hopefully sound less antagonistic.
  - seamyb88 7y ago
    Don't worry about down votes. You can replenish all with a witty quip. You can also undo the replenishing with a witty quip. Don't worry about down votes. I look for the down-voted, as the controversial ones are where I like to start. I'll give you an upvote because I've been to India for academic purposes.
- Mediterraneo10 7y ago
  India is a difficult country for outsiders to gauge its level of intellectual culture. I know India has an ancient tradition of religious learning and philosophy based on the study of texts. It has produced 20th-century novelists that are known the whole world over. And yet when I spent a year traveling all over India, there seemed to be so few bookshops even in upper-class districts, and so little reading in public. I could only conclude that reading and the intellectual life was the pursuit of only a small minority, but because of India’s huge population, even that small minority was large enough to be self-sustaining and make its impact, even if it was rather hidden away from sight.
wtallis 7y ago
Do you think India, Russia and China have been notable for achievement in those categories on any kind of per capita basis rather than through sheer scale?
- oarabbus_ 7y ago
  Well - I think that's an unanswerable question. My gut says that "any country if given the same economic opportunities could produce equal achievement". Obviously, that's in a completely idealized world. As it stands in actual, real life across human history, I do think that India, Russia, and China are more notable than most countries if we look at those criteria across history, but with "extra weight" given to modern day (e.g. Greece would not qualify with the "extra modern day weight" scale, but would be highly ranked if we only looked historically). All 3 belong in an "unranked top 5". Just my personal opinion.
- maire 7y ago
  I agree. If you have a billion people you should have 3 times the intellectual achievement as the US.
  - oarabbus_ 7y ago
    Yes, and if you are 3x older than your coworker you should make 3x their salary.
- Leary 7y ago
  Obviously Western Europe and the US have achieved more on a per capita basis given they are areas where the Scientific Revolution and industrialization occurred. I would say intellectual achievements is driven by the number upper-middle class individuals instead of the entire population. Rough guess of share of present day intellectual production by country (I like to make stuff up): US: 30% Western Europe: 30% China: 15% Japan: 5% India: 5% CIS countries: 5%
deleted 7y ago
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52-6F-62 7y ago

I jotted it down in seconds and have limited experience with some parts of the world. India absolutely has one of the longest poetic traditions and it fascinates me endlessly. I’d have been remiss to say that’s all that qualifies in my mind. That’s why I said it was not at all the end of what I’d consider an intellectual society. I’m hesitant to bring present-day Russia into it as I qualified with “continuing”. I say this as someone who studied Russian literature when I was younger. Again, please don’t discount my qualifiers above. It was by no means a survey list—just meant to illustrate my main point with societies I do have experience with.

oarabbus_ 7y ago
Thanks for the explanation. I realize that my post may have come off as antagonistic (the downvotes from others certainly seem to suggest that), but really I was just trying to understand your rationale. I edited my post to hopefully sound less antagonistic.
- seamyb88 7y ago
  Don't worry about down votes. You can replenish all with a witty quip. You can also undo the replenishing with a witty quip. Don't worry about down votes. I look for the down-voted, as the controversial ones are where I like to start. I'll give you an upvote because I've been to India for academic purposes.
Mediterraneo10 7y ago
India is a difficult country for outsiders to gauge its level of intellectual culture. I know India has an ancient tradition of religious learning and philosophy based on the study of texts. It has produced 20th-century novelists that are known the whole world over. And yet when I spent a year traveling all over India, there seemed to be so few bookshops even in upper-class districts, and so little reading in public. I could only conclude that reading and the intellectual life was the pursuit of only a small minority, but because of India’s huge population, even that small minority was large enough to be self-sustaining and make its impact, even if it was rather hidden away from sight.

wtallis 7y ago

Do you think India, Russia and China have been notable for achievement in those categories on any kind of per capita basis rather than through sheer scale?

oarabbus_ 7y ago
Well - I think that's an unanswerable question. My gut says that "any country if given the same economic opportunities could produce equal achievement". Obviously, that's in a completely idealized world. As it stands in actual, real life across human history, I do think that India, Russia, and China are more notable than most countries if we look at those criteria across history, but with "extra weight" given to modern day (e.g. Greece would not qualify with the "extra modern day weight" scale, but would be highly ranked if we only looked historically). All 3 belong in an "unranked top 5". Just my personal opinion.
maire 7y ago
I agree. If you have a billion people you should have 3 times the intellectual achievement as the US.
- oarabbus_ 7y ago
  Yes, and if you are 3x older than your coworker you should make 3x their salary.
Leary 7y ago
Obviously Western Europe and the US have achieved more on a per capita basis given they are areas where the Scientific Revolution and industrialization occurred. I would say intellectual achievements is driven by the number upper-middle class individuals instead of the entire population. Rough guess of share of present day intellectual production by country (I like to make stuff up): US: 30% Western Europe: 30% China: 15% Japan: 5% India: 5% CIS countries: 5%

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]