3 ms·

Do you live in Europe, or in the US? ("I'm from Europe" doesn't specify this.) If you're in the US, this is perfectly understandable: commutes here are hellis

by magduf 7y ago

Do you live in Europe, or in the US? ("I'm from Europe" doesn't specify this.) If you're in the US, this is perfectly understandable: commutes here are hellish because of the gridlock on roads and the lack of decent public transit. But European cities, from what I've seen, are much better because they generally do have good public transit. >World governments need to start incentivizing employers to offer remote ASAP as infrastructure in the cities is not keeping up with population growth. A lot of work can't be done remotely. Not everyone works in software. No, what governments need to do is build good infrastructure. Population growth in cities means more tax revenue, so there really isn't a problem here, except with some governments being too wasteful and inefficient and unable to build infrastructure on a budget. This isn't the case everywhere. China sure has no problems building clean and effective subway systems. The ones in Germany and Japan are pretty great too.

ChuckNorris89 7y ago
>But European cities, from what I've seen, are much better because they generally do have good public transit. Yes, I live in Europe but not every city here has the public transport infrastructure of London/Berlin or the cycling infrastructure of Amsterdam/Copenhagen so this meme of "everything in Europe is so good" needs to stop. How you perceive the transport system as a tourist is different than when you actually have to live and work somewhere long term. Sure, the public transport system in my city is probably better than the one in the US but because the city is so widespread and low density(think L.A.), pretty much everyone who doesn't live and work in the city center is commuting by car because otherwise you're looking at hours hopping through slow buses/trams to get somewhere. >A lot of work can't be done remotely. Not everyone works in software. Yes, not everyone is a programmer but they aren't the only ones who can work remotely, lots of office jobs can be remote as well if the companies would adjust for that. >No, what governments need to do is build good infrastructure. Yes, governments need to build infrastructure, but that stuff is highly costly, funds are limited and it takes a lot of time to build due to politics and NIMBYism whereas switching to remote would be a much faster way to relieve slack on existing infrastructure until more gets build. Let's assume that 20% of jobs can be done remote, that would free up a lot of traffic, living and office space for the people who have to commute. >China sure has no problems building clean and effective subway systems. The ones in Germany and Japan are pretty great too. As opposed to democratic countries, China is an outlier, the party has funds and can build infrastructure wherever it wants without public opposition. Japan and Germany have build their subways decades ago when the economy was good and infrastructure was cheaper. Lots of cities in Europe, and I assume in the US as well, have grown so much that they are in desperate need of a subway system, but now is a bad time, the economy is crap and infrastructure is expensive.
- thatfrenchguy 7y ago
  > the economy is crap and infrastructure is expensive. The GDP of any single European country has never been as high. The lack of government investment is not due to that.
  - ChuckNorris89 7y ago
    EU GDP may be high, but gov costs like healthcare for example are now even higher than ever due to an aging population. Take a look at where your taxes are going where you live. You'll see it's mostly social services like pensions, umeployment and different kinds of welfare programs so the gov has less money to spend on infrastructure as it has to spend most of it on the aging and often sick and unemployed population with voting rights.
likpok 7y ago
Commutes are generally longer in Europe than the US, in part because people take public transit over driving. (I like mass transit, and commute with it every day. It'd be shorter for me to drive though, sometimes by half). https://www.oecd.org/els/family/LMF2_6_Time_spent_travelling_to_and_from_work.pdf https://www.oecd.org/els/family/LMF2_6_Time_spent_travelling...
- magduf 7y ago
  That really depends on where you live; public transit is better in some places than others. Also, you're forgetting the stress factor. It doesn't take much mental energy to sit on a train for 30-60 minutes; you just need to make sure you don't miss your stop. Dealing with high-speed traffic for that long takes a mental toll. And on a train, you can read a book, look at your phone, etc.

by magduf 7y ago

ChuckNorris89 7y ago

>But European cities, from what I've seen, are much better because they generally do have good public transit. Yes, I live in Europe but not every city here has the public transport infrastructure of London/Berlin or the cycling infrastructure of Amsterdam/Copenhagen so this meme of "everything in Europe is so good" needs to stop. How you perceive the transport system as a tourist is different than when you actually have to live and work somewhere long term. Sure, the public transport system in my city is probably better than the one in the US but because the city is so widespread and low density(think L.A.), pretty much everyone who doesn't live and work in the city center is commuting by car because otherwise you're looking at hours hopping through slow buses/trams to get somewhere. >A lot of work can't be done remotely. Not everyone works in software. Yes, not everyone is a programmer but they aren't the only ones who can work remotely, lots of office jobs can be remote as well if the companies would adjust for that. >No, what governments need to do is build good infrastructure. Yes, governments need to build infrastructure, but that stuff is highly costly, funds are limited and it takes a lot of time to build due to politics and NIMBYism whereas switching to remote would be a much faster way to relieve slack on existing infrastructure until more gets build. Let's assume that 20% of jobs can be done remote, that would free up a lot of traffic, living and office space for the people who have to commute. >China sure has no problems building clean and effective subway systems. The ones in Germany and Japan are pretty great too. As opposed to democratic countries, China is an outlier, the party has funds and can build infrastructure wherever it wants without public opposition. Japan and Germany have build their subways decades ago when the economy was good and infrastructure was cheaper. Lots of cities in Europe, and I assume in the US as well, have grown so much that they are in desperate need of a subway system, but now is a bad time, the economy is crap and infrastructure is expensive.

thatfrenchguy 7y ago
> the economy is crap and infrastructure is expensive. The GDP of any single European country has never been as high. The lack of government investment is not due to that.
- ChuckNorris89 7y ago
  EU GDP may be high, but gov costs like healthcare for example are now even higher than ever due to an aging population. Take a look at where your taxes are going where you live. You'll see it's mostly social services like pensions, umeployment and different kinds of welfare programs so the gov has less money to spend on infrastructure as it has to spend most of it on the aging and often sick and unemployed population with voting rights.

likpok 7y ago

Commutes are generally longer in Europe than the US, in part because people take public transit over driving. (I like mass transit, and commute with it every day. It'd be shorter for me to drive though, sometimes by half). https://www.oecd.org/els/family/LMF2_6_Time_spent_travelling_to_and_from_work.pdf https://www.oecd.org/els/family/LMF2_6_Time_spent_travelling...

magduf 7y ago
That really depends on where you live; public transit is better in some places than others. Also, you're forgetting the stress factor. It doesn't take much mental energy to sit on a train for 30-60 minutes; you just need to make sure you don't miss your stop. Dealing with high-speed traffic for that long takes a mental toll. And on a train, you can read a book, look at your phone, etc.