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That is why the argument is made for freedom of movement of labour. If you could have cheaper labour in America, you would have the best of both worlds. But of

That is why the argument is made for freedom of movement of labour. If you could have cheaper labour in America, you would have the best of both worlds. But of course you’d have people complaining their jobs are being stolen. We can’t have our cake and eat it too.

corodra 7y ago
I don't know, I think that's only partially the problem. But just so we're clear, I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying there are other factors. Mostly, I think it's the way distributors and retailers form their contract deals, which spills to the farmers. I've never done food, but I know some of the deals work similarly to what I experienced in security. Camera manufacturers for example, give you a discounted price when you buy a certain amount every year. The more you sell, the better your discount. Typically 3 tiers, some did 4. This is both good and bad. It protects the loyal and well experienced integrators from the fly by night folks from making quick turn and burn dollars. Fly by night folks get lower margins compared to the bigger guys. But at the same time, it makes it a serious pain in the ass to get a foot in the door when starting out. On top of that, if you're a middle of the field player, you don't take too much risk in a new or alternative brand because it'll hurt your yearly number, thus hurt your discount, thus hurt your margins, thus hurt your overall profit. I assume big box grocery stores have a similar instance with distributors, with nuances of course. Part 2. There are farmer markets (real ones, not the hipster kind) with local farmers and it's a good 20%-50% cheaper. Plus, those farmers make a better margin. Problem, lower volume in comparison. Typically (near me) these are part of the weekly flea markets or literally a dude in his pickup truck on the side of the road. These places don't have a good... PR look. But I'm also in Florida and I grew up white trash. Nearly everything grows here and I'm fine if things aren't pristine/well-marketed. I think over marketing, bad lock in deals and piss poor public perception of real food production are the main problems. Real strawberries look like Frankenstein's face. And they're fucking delicious.
maehwasu 7y ago
You'd also often be forcing people to leave their communities and families, because the right job for them was somewhere else. It feels weird to unthinkingly sacrifice valuable life preferences at the altar of Economic Efficiency Uber Alles.
- BubRoss 7y ago
  What do you mean by 'the right job' and why would it 'force' people to leave their communities?
  - corodra 7y ago
    I'm going to change up the countries so there's less emotional value associated. Why should Polish people leave their country so they can find work in England? In theory, countries should be self-sufficient enough to where only niche based jobs should have such movement. I'm talking about highly specialized stuff. But when it comes to generic labor, why? Farming? Building houses? The fact people want to leave one country for another just for basic jobs is kind of messed up. I feel both countries are to blame forcing people to leave their homeland. One needs to get their fucking shit together and/or quit punishing a demographic because said gov wants to become a more service oriented country, the other country needs to stop creating incentives for such actions to become easily profitable on a large scale basis. Countries need to be self-sufficient with their own population. One population sacrificing its people for the good of another is not sustainable, no matter how you slice or dice it.
    - BubRoss 7y ago
      No one has to do anything. > The fact people want to leave one country for another just for basic jobs is kind of messed up. Do they have to or do they want to? If they want to, what is the problem? Economically countries are linked. You can say how these things 'should' be, but do you only buy food that was produced locally? You have to think about the incentives all the way through.
      - davchana 7y ago
        In Punjab most of the time they Have to, because staying back means competition 1000sof Over Qualified applications for a peon job, whereas coming over to First World means being rich in few years.

corodra 7y ago

I don't know, I think that's only partially the problem. But just so we're clear, I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying there are other factors. Mostly, I think it's the way distributors and retailers form their contract deals, which spills to the farmers. I've never done food, but I know some of the deals work similarly to what I experienced in security. Camera manufacturers for example, give you a discounted price when you buy a certain amount every year. The more you sell, the better your discount. Typically 3 tiers, some did 4. This is both good and bad. It protects the loyal and well experienced integrators from the fly by night folks from making quick turn and burn dollars. Fly by night folks get lower margins compared to the bigger guys. But at the same time, it makes it a serious pain in the ass to get a foot in the door when starting out. On top of that, if you're a middle of the field player, you don't take too much risk in a new or alternative brand because it'll hurt your yearly number, thus hurt your discount, thus hurt your margins, thus hurt your overall profit. I assume big box grocery stores have a similar instance with distributors, with nuances of course. Part 2. There are farmer markets (real ones, not the hipster kind) with local farmers and it's a good 20%-50% cheaper. Plus, those farmers make a better margin. Problem, lower volume in comparison. Typically (near me) these are part of the weekly flea markets or literally a dude in his pickup truck on the side of the road. These places don't have a good... PR look. But I'm also in Florida and I grew up white trash. Nearly everything grows here and I'm fine if things aren't pristine/well-marketed. I think over marketing, bad lock in deals and piss poor public perception of real food production are the main problems. Real strawberries look like Frankenstein's face. And they're fucking delicious.

maehwasu 7y ago

You'd also often be forcing people to leave their communities and families, because the right job for them was somewhere else. It feels weird to unthinkingly sacrifice valuable life preferences at the altar of Economic Efficiency Uber Alles.

BubRoss 7y ago
What do you mean by 'the right job' and why would it 'force' people to leave their communities?
- corodra 7y ago
  I'm going to change up the countries so there's less emotional value associated. Why should Polish people leave their country so they can find work in England? In theory, countries should be self-sufficient enough to where only niche based jobs should have such movement. I'm talking about highly specialized stuff. But when it comes to generic labor, why? Farming? Building houses? The fact people want to leave one country for another just for basic jobs is kind of messed up. I feel both countries are to blame forcing people to leave their homeland. One needs to get their fucking shit together and/or quit punishing a demographic because said gov wants to become a more service oriented country, the other country needs to stop creating incentives for such actions to become easily profitable on a large scale basis. Countries need to be self-sufficient with their own population. One population sacrificing its people for the good of another is not sustainable, no matter how you slice or dice it.
  - BubRoss 7y ago
    No one has to do anything. > The fact people want to leave one country for another just for basic jobs is kind of messed up. Do they have to or do they want to? If they want to, what is the problem? Economically countries are linked. You can say how these things 'should' be, but do you only buy food that was produced locally? You have to think about the incentives all the way through.
    - davchana 7y ago
      In Punjab most of the time they Have to, because staying back means competition 1000sof Over Qualified applications for a peon job, whereas coming over to First World means being rich in few years.