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I've been using the iOS 13 developer beta for a couple months, and I can confirm that within the first week, several apps from the big 4 requested permissions f

I've been using the iOS 13 developer beta for a couple months, and I can confirm that within the first week, several apps from the big 4 requested permissions for things that should be absolutely unnecessary. iOS 13 has several great privacy-focused changes: - WiFi SSID is protected behind location permissions (ie, an app must request and be granted location permissions to be able to access the current SSID) - Bluetooth has additional permission prompts (as detailed in the article) - When an app has been using location data, the user is periodically prompted to confirm continued background location use (with a map of locations the app has used). - Safari has several on top of all these, like prompting a user to allow cross-site cookie loading, etc In some of these, Apple is catching up to Android, and in others, it is ahead. Either way, it seems that most of these come from a directive from inside Apple to clean up 3rd party app behavior, likely prompted by things like last year's analytics & enterprise deployment scandals.

mosselman 7y ago
> In some of these, Apple is catching up to Android Where Android/Google itself is a bigger problem perhaps than the 3rd party apps.
- TheCapn 7y ago
  What's funny is with Android 10 you get these prompts now too (can't say how comparative the two features are though). My biggest offender is Google's apps requesting location access in the background; Hangouts, Messenger, Phone, etc. all asking for access when I'm not using the app. Naturally I block them, but since they're all Google products I wonder how much that even matters.
  - hadrien01 7y ago
    Since Google Play Services is the location provider on most Android phones, Google already has everything. At least with newer Android versions Facebook is blocked from accessing your location...
    - cameronbrown 7y ago
      AFAIK, if no apps are requesting location through Play Services/location is disabled then Google wouldn't get anything?
  - taneq 7y ago
    One of the things that lead me to drop Gmail was the fact that the Gmail app on my phone started harassing me to turn location services back on. Why does it need to know my GPS coords to send an email?
Someone1234 7y ago
Plus they added mouse support (on iPad). iOS 13 really is a great release. I just wish they allowed you to full hide the mouse cursor when the mouse isn't plugged in (the option that implies it does exactly that does not).
- graeme 7y ago
  You can use the accessibility shortcut to quickly turn on/off the cursor. Its constant presence is an artifact of apple pretending the mouse will only be used by those who need the pointer always for accessibility reasons.
- merpnderp 7y ago
  Have you tested this? Is it true mouse support, with a right click (for things like remote desktop) and everything?
  - Someone1234 7y ago
    You can customize what different mouse buttons do. I've used it every day for months, no substantial problems. As I said above the only real criticism I have is that the pointer/accessibility box doesn't disappear when the mouse is disconnected. I haven't tried it over Remote Desktop (I don't know if the "raw" mouse presses are relayed), only to interact with native iOS Apps.
- mrfusion 7y ago
  Mouse on an iPhone?
gpmcadam 7y ago
Does an App have to request Bluetooth permission for playing audio over Bluetooth headphones?
- zwily 7y ago
  I don’t think so. Access to audio over Bluetooth goes through a separate system that is mostly opaque to the app.
- graeme 7y ago
  No, that's handled by the system
kerberos84 7y ago
Apple is catching up to Android in privacy ? Good joke :)
- leevlad 7y ago
  This kind of comment indicates how effective the marketing/media kool-aid has been. Having paid very close attention to how both systems work (and having used both iOS and Android extensively in recent months), I don't think I'd necessarily declare either of these platforms a clear privacy champion.
  - snazz 7y ago
    If you’re trusting third-party apps with important data and not effectively restricting their permissions, then the OS doesn’t really matter. I’m glad that Apple is doing more to make permissions granular. If you don’t install anything outside of what your phone came with, iOS would certainly be the clear privacy champion.
  - Analemma_ 7y ago
    On iOS, your adversaries are third-party app developers. On Android, your adversaries are third-party app developers and the OS vendor, whose entire business model is hoovering up your data. iOS is, in mathematical jargon, strictly better on that basis alone.
    - izacus 7y ago
      How exactly is in case of Android the OS vendor the adversary? Considering the fact it was Apple that lied about not streaming Siri conversations while giving them out to 3rd parties? With no ability to revoke consent or even choose? Also Apple (as opposed to Google) is the one actively cooperating with Chinese government and giving them decryption keys for iCloud. If you look beyond the marketing spiel it's kinda ridiculous marking one of those corporations to be more trustworthy than the other.
      - saagarjha 7y ago
pndy 7y ago
These changes sounds great but sadly my iPad Air gen1 won't get iOS 13/iPadOS 13; I really wish they would come up with such improvements earlier.
WA 7y ago
Great! Now, one more thing I’d like to have added: get rid of photo library access and separate this into several permissions: - write access - read access (all photos) - read access (through a special iOS picker that acts as a middle man) The longer people have their phones, the more photos they have. And with them a whole lot of meta data such as location etc. I simply don’t trust most apps these days that they really don’t touch any of that data. Of course, you can already "share" a photo with an app, but this doesn’t let you change a profile picture in Instagram for example. The cynical person might say: why not stop using these apps in the first place? Because it’s difficult to say who is exploiting photo library access and who is not. Does VSCO do it? I’d think they have no interest, but it’s too much based on trust vs. something I can control.
- jorvi 7y ago
  Yes, this is actually one of my biggest peeves. iOS 13 takes a good step in the right direction by creating 'only once' permissions, but I'd also like it to be 'only this photo' (or perhaps iOS already does this if an app uses the standard photo picker?)
  - kennywinker 7y ago
    No, full photo access is required for an app to pick photos using the standard picker (as of iOS 12 anyway). I also wish they would separate these. I think it’s a legacy thing, since the photo picker pre-dates the remote-view-controller stuff used to isolate apps from system views (first seen when they introduced the in-app “safari view controller” thing)
- berti 7y ago
  > The longer people have their phones, the more photos they have. And with them a whole lot of meta data such as location etc. Stripping location metadata before handing photos off to apps would be nice too.
  - tinus_hn 7y ago
    IOS does this for apps that don't have photo library permissions and use the system photo picker.

mosselman 7y ago

> In some of these, Apple is catching up to Android Where Android/Google itself is a bigger problem perhaps than the 3rd party apps.

TheCapn 7y ago
What's funny is with Android 10 you get these prompts now too (can't say how comparative the two features are though). My biggest offender is Google's apps requesting location access in the background; Hangouts, Messenger, Phone, etc. all asking for access when I'm not using the app. Naturally I block them, but since they're all Google products I wonder how much that even matters.
- hadrien01 7y ago
  Since Google Play Services is the location provider on most Android phones, Google already has everything. At least with newer Android versions Facebook is blocked from accessing your location...
  - cameronbrown 7y ago
    AFAIK, if no apps are requesting location through Play Services/location is disabled then Google wouldn't get anything?
- taneq 7y ago
  One of the things that lead me to drop Gmail was the fact that the Gmail app on my phone started harassing me to turn location services back on. Why does it need to know my GPS coords to send an email?

Someone1234 7y ago

Plus they added mouse support (on iPad). iOS 13 really is a great release. I just wish they allowed you to full hide the mouse cursor when the mouse isn't plugged in (the option that implies it does exactly that does not).

graeme 7y ago
You can use the accessibility shortcut to quickly turn on/off the cursor. Its constant presence is an artifact of apple pretending the mouse will only be used by those who need the pointer always for accessibility reasons.
merpnderp 7y ago
Have you tested this? Is it true mouse support, with a right click (for things like remote desktop) and everything?
- Someone1234 7y ago
  You can customize what different mouse buttons do. I've used it every day for months, no substantial problems. As I said above the only real criticism I have is that the pointer/accessibility box doesn't disappear when the mouse is disconnected. I haven't tried it over Remote Desktop (I don't know if the "raw" mouse presses are relayed), only to interact with native iOS Apps.
mrfusion 7y ago
Mouse on an iPhone?

gpmcadam 7y ago

Does an App have to request Bluetooth permission for playing audio over Bluetooth headphones?

zwily 7y ago
I don’t think so. Access to audio over Bluetooth goes through a separate system that is mostly opaque to the app.
graeme 7y ago
No, that's handled by the system

kerberos84 7y ago

Apple is catching up to Android in privacy ? Good joke :)

leevlad 7y ago
This kind of comment indicates how effective the marketing/media kool-aid has been. Having paid very close attention to how both systems work (and having used both iOS and Android extensively in recent months), I don't think I'd necessarily declare either of these platforms a clear privacy champion.
- snazz 7y ago
  If you’re trusting third-party apps with important data and not effectively restricting their permissions, then the OS doesn’t really matter. I’m glad that Apple is doing more to make permissions granular. If you don’t install anything outside of what your phone came with, iOS would certainly be the clear privacy champion.
- Analemma_ 7y ago
  On iOS, your adversaries are third-party app developers. On Android, your adversaries are third-party app developers and the OS vendor, whose entire business model is hoovering up your data. iOS is, in mathematical jargon, strictly better on that basis alone.
  - izacus 7y ago
    How exactly is in case of Android the OS vendor the adversary? Considering the fact it was Apple that lied about not streaming Siri conversations while giving them out to 3rd parties? With no ability to revoke consent or even choose? Also Apple (as opposed to Google) is the one actively cooperating with Chinese government and giving them decryption keys for iCloud. If you look beyond the marketing spiel it's kinda ridiculous marking one of those corporations to be more trustworthy than the other.
    - saagarjha 7y ago

pndy 7y ago

These changes sounds great but sadly my iPad Air gen1 won't get iOS 13/iPadOS 13; I really wish they would come up with such improvements earlier.

WA 7y ago

Great! Now, one more thing I’d like to have added: get rid of photo library access and separate this into several permissions: - write access - read access (all photos) - read access (through a special iOS picker that acts as a middle man) The longer people have their phones, the more photos they have. And with them a whole lot of meta data such as location etc. I simply don’t trust most apps these days that they really don’t touch any of that data. Of course, you can already "share" a photo with an app, but this doesn’t let you change a profile picture in Instagram for example. The cynical person might say: why not stop using these apps in the first place? Because it’s difficult to say who is exploiting photo library access and who is not. Does VSCO do it? I’d think they have no interest, but it’s too much based on trust vs. something I can control.

jorvi 7y ago
Yes, this is actually one of my biggest peeves. iOS 13 takes a good step in the right direction by creating 'only once' permissions, but I'd also like it to be 'only this photo' (or perhaps iOS already does this if an app uses the standard photo picker?)
- kennywinker 7y ago
  No, full photo access is required for an app to pick photos using the standard picker (as of iOS 12 anyway). I also wish they would separate these. I think it’s a legacy thing, since the photo picker pre-dates the remote-view-controller stuff used to isolate apps from system views (first seen when they introduced the in-app “safari view controller” thing)
berti 7y ago
> The longer people have their phones, the more photos they have. And with them a whole lot of meta data such as location etc. Stripping location metadata before handing photos off to apps would be nice too.
- tinus_hn 7y ago
  IOS does this for apps that don't have photo library permissions and use the system photo picker.