14 ms·

The married couples in Hong Kong who live apart

100 points by mih 7y ago

Yuval_Halevi 7y ago
For those of you who want to get some in-depth statistics about the situation in Hong Kong https://www.bycensus2016.gov.hk/data/16BC_Youth_report_2018.02.12.pdf https://www.bycensus2016.gov.hk/data/16BC_Youth_report_2018....
pcurve 7y ago
"Nearly one in 10 married couples in Hong Kong are not living with their spouses." In the US the figure is 7 percent so it's not unusual for couples to live apart. I'm curious if the embedded study written in Chinese accounts for this.
- mc32 7y ago
  Hong Kong is rather small, so living apart would seem less influenced by geographic separation (though you might have couples split in HK and mainland) due to jobs, but might indicate something like what also happens in the US that it’s economically favorable to stay together in a legal sense. Edit: looks like in HK there is a large component of this which is caused by housing unaffordability —so couples keep living in their respective parents’ homes.
  - thaumasiotes 7y ago
    > you might have couples split in HK and mainland I have no direct knowledge of this, but HKers working in the mainland is common enough that I suspect this could account for quite a lot of split couples.
- mih 7y ago
  Yes, but to get a good picture one should account for how large the geographic separation between the couples is and for what reasons? The case of spouses voluntarily living apart on either coasts of the continental USA for career reasons or to save time commuting is quite different from that of a couple within tens of miles of each other, separated involuntarily due to affordability.
- truebrazilian 7y ago
  The problem in Hong-Kong for those couples is that they simply can't afford any kind of house and their parents home are already too cramped without an additional husband or wife.
ChuckNorris89 7y ago
I'm from Europe and I also live apart from my long term SO. The reason being our job commutes. We work in completely opposite parts of town and due to the city lacking fast public transport and her job lacking flextime she has to wake up way earlier than I'm use to if I want to be productive at work and so far we haven't found a middle ground where one doesn't have to compromise too much. Honestly, remote work would ease a lot of modern urban problems like traffic, rents, relationships, childcare, etc. If only our corporate masters would allow it. World governments need to start incentivizing employers to offer remote ASAP as infrastructure in the cities is not keeping up with population growth.
- pfortuny 7y ago
  But the problem the article tries to explain is that they live apart because they cannot afford a house at all (both live at their respective parents' and their child spends time with either alternatively).
  - skohan 7y ago
    Sounds like high school. I feel like housing policy is on the verge of becoming a major public issue, the same way that Healthcare has in the US in the last couple years. It seems to me that it's just gotten too difficult in too many places to find an affordable place to live, and it just doesn't seem sustainable for only high-wage earners to have stable housing.
    - rcpt 7y ago
      > it's just gotten too difficult in too many places to find an affordable place to live Problem is that none of those places are swing states and voting demographics aren't exactly the ones moving to new cities and getting hit by awful rent. Housing is a national issue, by some estimates we're losing double digit percentages off US GDP to appease NIMBYs https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/06/opinion/housing-regulations-us-economy.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/06/opinion/housing-regulatio...
- YinglingLight 7y ago
vivekd 7y ago
So the cost of an apartment is $4000 and medium income for new employees is $10000 according to the article. Am I missing something - that seems more affordable than most major metropolitan areas. With two incomes that would be more than enough.
- a_c 7y ago
  > [for] a single unit within a subdivided flat that's around 100-200 sq. ft.
  - ksec 7y ago
    I could bet $4000 ( $510 USD ) that it is not 100-200 Sq. Feet. $4000 tends to get you Sub 100 Sq Feet Space.
- tannhauser23 7y ago
  It's the cost of a bed in a subdivided apartment, not an apartment itself.
- xwolfi 7y ago
  The numbers you cite are in Hong Kong dollar, so 400 USD for an extremely small flat with no windows, and 1000 USD income, which really is not much when you factor basic necessities.
chaostheory 7y ago
From personal anecdotal data, it’s also common for HK couples to live even further away; as in different countries for years. I’ve know several families from HK where the husband stayed behind just so his family could leave for western countries before the handover years back
alistairSH 7y ago
How are the parents affording a 2-bedroom apartment? Is there a massive (relative to what we'd expect) income gap between 50-60 year olds and 20-30 year olds? The article mentioned incomes for the younger demographics, but not the older.
- skohan 7y ago
  Maybe they own it? Or else is there some kind of rent control? Where I live in Berlin it's almost impossible for older people to move, because their rent would probably increase by several times if they've been in the same apartment for a few decades.
- tvanantwerp 7y ago
  Hong Kong has many public housing estates with greatly reduced rents. It's likely the parents live in one of these. New construction has not at all met demand in recent years, so there's less and less new public housing available for younger generations to try and get. Private housing is, for most, completely out of the question. Living with parents is very common in HK.
- ksec 7y ago
  >How are the parents affording a 2-bedroom apartment? Gap between income and housing price are no where near as wide as they are today, where Hong Kong has been Number 1 for the past 10+ years, on a scale that nearly double the 2nd or 3rd City. Public Housing policy were also much better in their times.
mymythisisthis 7y ago
We need a 4 day work week with 1 day of mandatory/paid retraining. Unskilled labor can be found anywhere, there are 7.7 billion people on the planet. By having programs in place for training we can move people into careers where they can grow and move up. German is moving to a 28hr work week for some workers. https://money.cnn.com/2018/02/07/news/economy/germany-28-hour-work-week/index.html https://money.cnn.com/2018/02/07/news/economy/germany-28-hou...
- SolaceQuantum 7y ago
  I don't know if we should do mandatory retraining- I would also be down for this to be a "free" day to do things like home projects, rest and recovery if you are mentally/physically ill, do some grocery shopping at a farmers' market, volunteer at a shelter or retirement home...
  - xwolfi 7y ago
    As long as it's unpaid, sure. Most company allow you do take unpaid leaves and rest and recover.
- xwolfi 7y ago
  The 28 hour week with reduced salary combined with the 40 hours with increased salary is what we've always begged the left to do, rather than force a 35 hours to everyone, from the eager 18yo starting in life to the grumpy 65yo complaining about his back. We need choice and opportunities, not central planning and fake good ideas, like the fixed hour rate was.
drakonka 7y ago
Aside from the financial aspect I've been thinking about the topic of living together with your long term partner recently. I am re-evaluating the whole concept that couples eventually living together needs to be some kind of long term relationship default or goal. I love my personal space and having an apartment to call my own to come home to. I also love having my boyfriend visit, sometimes for days at a time. I'm not completely against eventually moving in together, but am kind of unsure when or why we usually consider it to be some sort of inevitable goal of a successful relationship that is progressing. Can't we just live separately, enjoy our own space, and see each other whenever we want? Maybe gradually the time we want to spend together will increase, and then nothing is stopping us from doing that. And maybe we'll go through a phase where we want more personal time, and then we'll still have the option to do that, too! This way we could see each other simply because we want to, not because we happen to live in the same apartment and don't really have another option anyway. Of course this becomes more complicated if the couple chooses to have children, but as someone who intends to stay childfree I guess I just don't see much of an incentive to move in together 'permanently'.
- jschwartzi 7y ago
  Speaking as someone who intends to have children with my partner, you're basically right about why we want to move in together. That, and it simplifies a lot of the logistics of being in a long-term relationship for us. Right now I have to haul overnight bags to her house and plan how I'm going to get fresh clothes and stuff during the week, because I'm usually spending the night at her place. But when we move in together all my things will be colocated at her place. And I'll be able to cook dinner and help take care of us, which is more difficult when living separately. We still both recognize the need for personal space within our shared home so we are discussing how we can accomplish that as we also decide how we're going to move in together. I think the discussion of what your goals are is a critical part of any relationship, and personally as someone who doesn't share your goals I still think it's great that you know what they are and that you've discussed them with your partner. Because the communication is actually what defines a good relationship, and not this stepwise cultural treadmill toward cohabitating and having kids.
  - 7y ago
crimsonalucard 7y ago
This makes it easier for people to have multiple SO.
option_greek 7y ago
Living in those tiny flats (29sqft, 5.5sqft) sounds inhumane. I always thought Hong kong as developed. What is the point of all that development if people have to live like this :(
rdlecler1 7y ago
I’ll continue saying this until it happens. We need an Elon Musk for housing. Imagine how much capital could be freed up for non rent-seeking purposes if we could fix this broken system. Note I would expect driverless cars to help here as many people may be able to work-commute, and even if you’re not afforded that luxury it may ease housing pressure on those that can not.
- 100-xyz 7y ago
  Can you elaborate on what you mean by Elon Musk for housing? What kind of solution are you aiming at? Serious question.

100 points by mih 7y ago

For those of you who want to get some in-depth statistics about the situation in Hong Kong https://www.bycensus2016.gov.hk/data/16BC_Youth_report_2018.02.12.pdf https://www.bycensus2016.gov.hk/data/16BC_Youth_report_2018....

pcurve 7y ago

"Nearly one in 10 married couples in Hong Kong are not living with their spouses." In the US the figure is 7 percent so it's not unusual for couples to live apart. I'm curious if the embedded study written in Chinese accounts for this.

mc32 7y ago
Hong Kong is rather small, so living apart would seem less influenced by geographic separation (though you might have couples split in HK and mainland) due to jobs, but might indicate something like what also happens in the US that it’s economically favorable to stay together in a legal sense. Edit: looks like in HK there is a large component of this which is caused by housing unaffordability —so couples keep living in their respective parents’ homes.
- thaumasiotes 7y ago
  > you might have couples split in HK and mainland I have no direct knowledge of this, but HKers working in the mainland is common enough that I suspect this could account for quite a lot of split couples.
mih 7y ago
Yes, but to get a good picture one should account for how large the geographic separation between the couples is and for what reasons? The case of spouses voluntarily living apart on either coasts of the continental USA for career reasons or to save time commuting is quite different from that of a couple within tens of miles of each other, separated involuntarily due to affordability.
truebrazilian 7y ago
The problem in Hong-Kong for those couples is that they simply can't afford any kind of house and their parents home are already too cramped without an additional husband or wife.

ChuckNorris89 7y ago

I'm from Europe and I also live apart from my long term SO. The reason being our job commutes. We work in completely opposite parts of town and due to the city lacking fast public transport and her job lacking flextime she has to wake up way earlier than I'm use to if I want to be productive at work and so far we haven't found a middle ground where one doesn't have to compromise too much. Honestly, remote work would ease a lot of modern urban problems like traffic, rents, relationships, childcare, etc. If only our corporate masters would allow it. World governments need to start incentivizing employers to offer remote ASAP as infrastructure in the cities is not keeping up with population growth.

pfortuny 7y ago
But the problem the article tries to explain is that they live apart because they cannot afford a house at all (both live at their respective parents' and their child spends time with either alternatively).
- skohan 7y ago
  Sounds like high school. I feel like housing policy is on the verge of becoming a major public issue, the same way that Healthcare has in the US in the last couple years. It seems to me that it's just gotten too difficult in too many places to find an affordable place to live, and it just doesn't seem sustainable for only high-wage earners to have stable housing.
  - rcpt 7y ago
    > it's just gotten too difficult in too many places to find an affordable place to live Problem is that none of those places are swing states and voting demographics aren't exactly the ones moving to new cities and getting hit by awful rent. Housing is a national issue, by some estimates we're losing double digit percentages off US GDP to appease NIMBYs https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/06/opinion/housing-regulations-us-economy.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/06/opinion/housing-regulatio...
YinglingLight 7y ago

vivekd 7y ago

So the cost of an apartment is $4000 and medium income for new employees is $10000 according to the article. Am I missing something - that seems more affordable than most major metropolitan areas. With two incomes that would be more than enough.

a_c 7y ago
> [for] a single unit within a subdivided flat that's around 100-200 sq. ft.
- ksec 7y ago
  I could bet $4000 ( $510 USD ) that it is not 100-200 Sq. Feet. $4000 tends to get you Sub 100 Sq Feet Space.
tannhauser23 7y ago
It's the cost of a bed in a subdivided apartment, not an apartment itself.
xwolfi 7y ago
The numbers you cite are in Hong Kong dollar, so 400 USD for an extremely small flat with no windows, and 1000 USD income, which really is not much when you factor basic necessities.

chaostheory 7y ago

From personal anecdotal data, it’s also common for HK couples to live even further away; as in different countries for years. I’ve know several families from HK where the husband stayed behind just so his family could leave for western countries before the handover years back

alistairSH 7y ago

How are the parents affording a 2-bedroom apartment? Is there a massive (relative to what we'd expect) income gap between 50-60 year olds and 20-30 year olds? The article mentioned incomes for the younger demographics, but not the older.

skohan 7y ago
Maybe they own it? Or else is there some kind of rent control? Where I live in Berlin it's almost impossible for older people to move, because their rent would probably increase by several times if they've been in the same apartment for a few decades.
tvanantwerp 7y ago
Hong Kong has many public housing estates with greatly reduced rents. It's likely the parents live in one of these. New construction has not at all met demand in recent years, so there's less and less new public housing available for younger generations to try and get. Private housing is, for most, completely out of the question. Living with parents is very common in HK.
ksec 7y ago
>How are the parents affording a 2-bedroom apartment? Gap between income and housing price are no where near as wide as they are today, where Hong Kong has been Number 1 for the past 10+ years, on a scale that nearly double the 2nd or 3rd City. Public Housing policy were also much better in their times.

mymythisisthis 7y ago

We need a 4 day work week with 1 day of mandatory/paid retraining. Unskilled labor can be found anywhere, there are 7.7 billion people on the planet. By having programs in place for training we can move people into careers where they can grow and move up. German is moving to a 28hr work week for some workers. https://money.cnn.com/2018/02/07/news/economy/germany-28-hour-work-week/index.html https://money.cnn.com/2018/02/07/news/economy/germany-28-hou...

SolaceQuantum 7y ago
I don't know if we should do mandatory retraining- I would also be down for this to be a "free" day to do things like home projects, rest and recovery if you are mentally/physically ill, do some grocery shopping at a farmers' market, volunteer at a shelter or retirement home...
- xwolfi 7y ago
  As long as it's unpaid, sure. Most company allow you do take unpaid leaves and rest and recover.
xwolfi 7y ago
The 28 hour week with reduced salary combined with the 40 hours with increased salary is what we've always begged the left to do, rather than force a 35 hours to everyone, from the eager 18yo starting in life to the grumpy 65yo complaining about his back. We need choice and opportunities, not central planning and fake good ideas, like the fixed hour rate was.

drakonka 7y ago

Aside from the financial aspect I've been thinking about the topic of living together with your long term partner recently. I am re-evaluating the whole concept that couples eventually living together needs to be some kind of long term relationship default or goal. I love my personal space and having an apartment to call my own to come home to. I also love having my boyfriend visit, sometimes for days at a time. I'm not completely against eventually moving in together, but am kind of unsure when or why we usually consider it to be some sort of inevitable goal of a successful relationship that is progressing. Can't we just live separately, enjoy our own space, and see each other whenever we want? Maybe gradually the time we want to spend together will increase, and then nothing is stopping us from doing that. And maybe we'll go through a phase where we want more personal time, and then we'll still have the option to do that, too! This way we could see each other simply because we want to, not because we happen to live in the same apartment and don't really have another option anyway. Of course this becomes more complicated if the couple chooses to have children, but as someone who intends to stay childfree I guess I just don't see much of an incentive to move in together 'permanently'.

jschwartzi 7y ago
Speaking as someone who intends to have children with my partner, you're basically right about why we want to move in together. That, and it simplifies a lot of the logistics of being in a long-term relationship for us. Right now I have to haul overnight bags to her house and plan how I'm going to get fresh clothes and stuff during the week, because I'm usually spending the night at her place. But when we move in together all my things will be colocated at her place. And I'll be able to cook dinner and help take care of us, which is more difficult when living separately. We still both recognize the need for personal space within our shared home so we are discussing how we can accomplish that as we also decide how we're going to move in together. I think the discussion of what your goals are is a critical part of any relationship, and personally as someone who doesn't share your goals I still think it's great that you know what they are and that you've discussed them with your partner. Because the communication is actually what defines a good relationship, and not this stepwise cultural treadmill toward cohabitating and having kids.
- 7y ago

crimsonalucard 7y ago

This makes it easier for people to have multiple SO.

option_greek 7y ago

Living in those tiny flats (29sqft, 5.5sqft) sounds inhumane. I always thought Hong kong as developed. What is the point of all that development if people have to live like this :(

rdlecler1 7y ago

I’ll continue saying this until it happens. We need an Elon Musk for housing. Imagine how much capital could be freed up for non rent-seeking purposes if we could fix this broken system. Note I would expect driverless cars to help here as many people may be able to work-commute, and even if you’re not afforded that luxury it may ease housing pressure on those that can not.

100-xyz 7y ago
Can you elaborate on what you mean by Elon Musk for housing? What kind of solution are you aiming at? Serious question.