3 ms·

It's almost like by having fewer children, we might ameliorate the problem!

hluska 7y ago
Taken in the macro, reproduction is an important part of policy. And you’re 100% correct - we have more than enough humans. But when I look at the micro, at the amazing little person who is still asleep in her bed, it’s hard not to look at a subject emotionally.
- srean 7y ago
  Its far from clear even in the macro setting. Without changes in mortality rate this will lead to a shift in the age distribution of the population -- that can have consequences for the economy.
  - izzydata 7y ago
    If humanity is struggling to stay alive is the economy even relevant anymore?
    - rayiner 7y ago
      The economy fuels technological advance, and technological advance is the only thing that can fix the problem. (It may not, but it's the only thing that can. Social engineering will not.)
      - zackmorris 7y ago
        This is a widely held misconception. Humans tend to expand into every niche and use up all available resources. Tragedy of the commons is an almost certainty without some kind of government intervention (social engineering). So we're projected to just keep using more and more and more energy, regardless of where it comes from, or how cheap/renewable it becomes: https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2019/06/27/1561608044000/Green-technology-will-not-save-us/ https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2019/06/27/1561608044000/Green-t... http://www.roperld.com/science/energyfuture.htm http://www.roperld.com/science/energyfuture.htm On top of that, even if the US and Europe get their acts together, the rest of the world is going to keep speeding faster and faster to catch up to our standard of living and waste at least as much energy as we do. As it stands today, there is no solution. We're looking at ecological collapse in all areas when approaching human lifetime timescales. I think that a solution (if there is one) will come from the current gen x generation (too poor), baby boomer generation (too greedy) and greatest generation (too much in denial) dying out and being replaced by younger, hungrier people who can change their minds and adapt when new information is presented. In other words, the answer probably isn't technology, it's education and movements. We quit using leaded gasoline and CFC refrigerants, so maybe we can quit using coal and single-use plastic, for example. Then it will come time to quit using the heavy hitting stuff like non-recycled automobiles/housing and factory farmed food. But nobody will do that unless the cost is comparable for similar substitutes. Which is why I think we'll all fail together and accept mundanity in a world where 90+% of species are extinct and all habitable land is under private ownership for exploitation. Basically global authoritarianism under late-stage capitalism.
        srean 7y ago
        Quitting leaded gasoline had much to do with the lead fouling up catalytic converters. People do not buy converters that go bust in few days --in otherwords, bad for business. That said catalytic converters came into the picture because of rising pollution , so prrhaps there is hope, not entirely sure.

Taken in the macro, reproduction is an important part of policy. And you’re 100% correct - we have more than enough humans. But when I look at the micro, at the amazing little person who is still asleep in her bed, it’s hard not to look at a subject emotionally.

srean 7y ago
Its far from clear even in the macro setting. Without changes in mortality rate this will lead to a shift in the age distribution of the population -- that can have consequences for the economy.
- izzydata 7y ago
  If humanity is struggling to stay alive is the economy even relevant anymore?
  - rayiner 7y ago
    The economy fuels technological advance, and technological advance is the only thing that can fix the problem. (It may not, but it's the only thing that can. Social engineering will not.)
    - zackmorris 7y ago
      This is a widely held misconception. Humans tend to expand into every niche and use up all available resources. Tragedy of the commons is an almost certainty without some kind of government intervention (social engineering). So we're projected to just keep using more and more and more energy, regardless of where it comes from, or how cheap/renewable it becomes: https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2019/06/27/1561608044000/Green-technology-will-not-save-us/ https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2019/06/27/1561608044000/Green-t... http://www.roperld.com/science/energyfuture.htm http://www.roperld.com/science/energyfuture.htm On top of that, even if the US and Europe get their acts together, the rest of the world is going to keep speeding faster and faster to catch up to our standard of living and waste at least as much energy as we do. As it stands today, there is no solution. We're looking at ecological collapse in all areas when approaching human lifetime timescales. I think that a solution (if there is one) will come from the current gen x generation (too poor), baby boomer generation (too greedy) and greatest generation (too much in denial) dying out and being replaced by younger, hungrier people who can change their minds and adapt when new information is presented. In other words, the answer probably isn't technology, it's education and movements. We quit using leaded gasoline and CFC refrigerants, so maybe we can quit using coal and single-use plastic, for example. Then it will come time to quit using the heavy hitting stuff like non-recycled automobiles/housing and factory farmed food. But nobody will do that unless the cost is comparable for similar substitutes. Which is why I think we'll all fail together and accept mundanity in a world where 90+% of species are extinct and all habitable land is under private ownership for exploitation. Basically global authoritarianism under late-stage capitalism.
      - srean 7y ago
        Quitting leaded gasoline had much to do with the lead fouling up catalytic converters. People do not buy converters that go bust in few days --in otherwords, bad for business. That said catalytic converters came into the picture because of rising pollution , so prrhaps there is hope, not entirely sure.