6 ms·

It's entirely dependant upon volume. According to [0], the average US non-fiction book will sell under 3,000 copies in its lifetime. For the proceeds from that

by dgacmu 7y ago

It's entirely dependant upon volume. According to [0], the average US non-fiction book will sell under 3,000 copies in its lifetime. For the proceeds from that to pay the author, editor, and marketing... Well, that's not a lot of copies to amortize those salaries across. The numbers are obviously very different for a New York times best seller, where physical goods costs will represent a larger fraction of the cost. But most books aren't NYT bestsellers, (even? Particularly?) When they're by Knuth on advanced topics. :) you could call paying all of the people involved in the process of creating a book artificial, but if we don't, we don't get more books. [0] https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_1394159 https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_1394159

JoeAltmaier 7y ago
Coincidentally, it costs between $2000 and $4000 to print and market a book. So, what, say $1 per book pays for that. The rest pays the author. But wait! Authors only get a buck or two royalty per book. So why do they cost so much? Use your imagination.
- bregma 7y ago
  > it costs between $2000 and $4000 to print and market a book It costs between $2000 and $4000 to print a book. It costs about the same to warehouse and distribute a typical hardcover. It costs maybe $100,000 to market a book. Often much more. Printing, distribution, and royalties are a small part of costs in the publishing industry. Marketing and amortized overhead are a large part of the costs.
  - vorpalhex 7y ago
    If you spend $100,000 to market a book that only sells 3k copies.. maybe you're bad at marketing.
  - greedo 7y ago
    Most books, especially non-fiction have incredibly small marketing budgets. Often it's up to the author to self-promote the book.
- falcolas 7y ago
  Many authors also get paid ahead of time to write their book as well. So, a portion of that also goes towards managing the loan given to the author, and distributing the risk of any given book not living up to its sales expectations.
- SolaceQuantum 7y ago
  Marketing, type setting, cover design, editing, distribution channels, licenses for fonts, lawyers for contracts between everyone, accountants for managing the money flow of all the above, analysts to track how well each genre is selling and why, etc? And if the cover is particularly glossy, has metallic shiny lettering, velvet, etc. That also jacks price because that stuff all has to be custom made.
- TheCoelacanth 7y ago
  The author's cut, the publisher's cut and the cost of printing the book are each about 10% of the gross[1]. The rest goes to the retailer. [1] https://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2013/03/why-i-dont-self-publish.html#comment-1200589 https://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2013/03/why-i-d...
meuk 7y ago
You make a good point: There surely is a difference between someone like Donald Knuth writing a book that is relatively niche, and a best-seller. For one, I can imagine that a page of mathematics requires more expertise and time to write than a page of fiction. However, there are dozens of free e-books on the web, written by respectable and knowledgeable professors, and this tells me that the only real cost involved is the effort of writing itself. The distribution and marketing cost for an e-book like 'Concrete mathematics' should be nearly zero. Unless my €80 goes directly to the authors, I'm wasting money. This is defendable for a physical book, but not for an e-book.
- ineptwriter 7y ago
  Reacting to this: "I can imagine that a page of mathematics requires more expertise and time to write than a page of fiction." I cannot say exactly how much time it takes to write a page of math, but I do know that many underestimate the time it takes to write a page of fiction. Sure Dan Brown probably knocks out a page of pulpy prose in an hour. But that's not exactly equivalent to critical reviewed, prize winning, literature. Nor is it what most writers strive for. Many fiction writers have spent years writing their books, recieved graduate degrees (some that they paid for), stuck failed novels in drawers, produced multiple drafts, been rejected hundreds of times, etc. I.E. labored over each page and fought for each step. Beloved was Toni Morrison's 5th book, not published until she was 56. That's decades of work to get to that point. Try looking at any page of James Joyce Ulyssess. That book alone spawned the PhDs of hundreds (thousands?) of scholars in English departments across the world just to understand it. Math too takes this level of work, it's just that they're more equivalent than some think. Except, even though many fiction writers labor over every word and punctuation mark, there are not the same institutions to support them as there are mathematicians. Want to pursue a career in math? - enroll in a fully funded PhD in Mathematics, hopefully get a post-doc, then a tenure track job, etc. Admittedly not all succeed on this route, and it's not easy, there are teaching and publication responsibilities, but it exists. For writing? You're on your own until you produce critically acclaimed works, generally two successful books, usually while pursuing separate careers. Then you can apply for tenure-track jobs. There's not the same caccoon to usher in writing talent. Even Dan Brown, whose prose I just bashed, spent 14 years as a songwriter and High School English teacher before the Da Vinci code (his fourth book) garnered attention. So I'd disagree, many (most? - not sure) fiction takes significant expertise and time to produce, and usually without the support of academic institutions that budding math talent has.

by dgacmu 7y ago

JoeAltmaier 7y ago

Coincidentally, it costs between $2000 and $4000 to print and market a book. So, what, say $1 per book pays for that. The rest pays the author. But wait! Authors only get a buck or two royalty per book. So why do they cost so much? Use your imagination.

bregma 7y ago
> it costs between $2000 and $4000 to print and market a book It costs between $2000 and $4000 to print a book. It costs about the same to warehouse and distribute a typical hardcover. It costs maybe $100,000 to market a book. Often much more. Printing, distribution, and royalties are a small part of costs in the publishing industry. Marketing and amortized overhead are a large part of the costs.
- vorpalhex 7y ago
  If you spend $100,000 to market a book that only sells 3k copies.. maybe you're bad at marketing.
- greedo 7y ago
  Most books, especially non-fiction have incredibly small marketing budgets. Often it's up to the author to self-promote the book.
falcolas 7y ago
Many authors also get paid ahead of time to write their book as well. So, a portion of that also goes towards managing the loan given to the author, and distributing the risk of any given book not living up to its sales expectations.
SolaceQuantum 7y ago
Marketing, type setting, cover design, editing, distribution channels, licenses for fonts, lawyers for contracts between everyone, accountants for managing the money flow of all the above, analysts to track how well each genre is selling and why, etc? And if the cover is particularly glossy, has metallic shiny lettering, velvet, etc. That also jacks price because that stuff all has to be custom made.
TheCoelacanth 7y ago
The author's cut, the publisher's cut and the cost of printing the book are each about 10% of the gross[1]. The rest goes to the retailer. [1] https://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2013/03/why-i-dont-self-publish.html#comment-1200589 https://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2013/03/why-i-d...

meuk 7y ago

You make a good point: There surely is a difference between someone like Donald Knuth writing a book that is relatively niche, and a best-seller. For one, I can imagine that a page of mathematics requires more expertise and time to write than a page of fiction. However, there are dozens of free e-books on the web, written by respectable and knowledgeable professors, and this tells me that the only real cost involved is the effort of writing itself. The distribution and marketing cost for an e-book like 'Concrete mathematics' should be nearly zero. Unless my €80 goes directly to the authors, I'm wasting money. This is defendable for a physical book, but not for an e-book.

ineptwriter 7y ago
Reacting to this: "I can imagine that a page of mathematics requires more expertise and time to write than a page of fiction." I cannot say exactly how much time it takes to write a page of math, but I do know that many underestimate the time it takes to write a page of fiction. Sure Dan Brown probably knocks out a page of pulpy prose in an hour. But that's not exactly equivalent to critical reviewed, prize winning, literature. Nor is it what most writers strive for. Many fiction writers have spent years writing their books, recieved graduate degrees (some that they paid for), stuck failed novels in drawers, produced multiple drafts, been rejected hundreds of times, etc. I.E. labored over each page and fought for each step. Beloved was Toni Morrison's 5th book, not published until she was 56. That's decades of work to get to that point. Try looking at any page of James Joyce Ulyssess. That book alone spawned the PhDs of hundreds (thousands?) of scholars in English departments across the world just to understand it. Math too takes this level of work, it's just that they're more equivalent than some think. Except, even though many fiction writers labor over every word and punctuation mark, there are not the same institutions to support them as there are mathematicians. Want to pursue a career in math? - enroll in a fully funded PhD in Mathematics, hopefully get a post-doc, then a tenure track job, etc. Admittedly not all succeed on this route, and it's not easy, there are teaching and publication responsibilities, but it exists. For writing? You're on your own until you produce critically acclaimed works, generally two successful books, usually while pursuing separate careers. Then you can apply for tenure-track jobs. There's not the same caccoon to usher in writing talent. Even Dan Brown, whose prose I just bashed, spent 14 years as a songwriter and High School English teacher before the Da Vinci code (his fourth book) garnered attention. So I'd disagree, many (most? - not sure) fiction takes significant expertise and time to produce, and usually without the support of academic institutions that budding math talent has.