5 ms·

People seem to instinctively feel that an e-book shouldn't cost as much as a real book. A paperback edition of a book often has multiple owners throughout its —

People seem to instinctively feel that an e-book shouldn't cost as much as a real book. A paperback edition of a book often has multiple owners throughout its — sometimes considerable — lifespan. That's simply part of the deal, and it always has been. E-books lack the ability to share, sell, and pass it on. That's fine, but the market won't bear nearly the same price as a paper book that can do all those things. An e-book should in all fairness cost perhaps a third or fourth of a paper book — i.e., the price of a paperback edition divided by the average number of readers it tends to have. Not pricing the goods accordingly leads to where we are now: mass piracy of e-books and hardly anyone feeling guilty about it. I don't read e-books myself (I take delight in my collection of paper books), but as far as I know sharing USB-drives filled with thousands of e-books is common in a lot of circles — with middle-aged people in particular. Compare this with piracy in games, music, and video, which is comparatively rare due to the affordable and easy legal alternatives, and it is hard not to see that the market is simply not offering the best solution.

fragmede 7y ago
Video piracy's gone down specifically due to Netflix. As each brand stops allowing Neflix to host their content, and as long as income remains to flat for a large portion of America, I'm expecting video piracy to make a comeback as soon as people remember it exists. Subscribing to HBO, CBS, Disney, and whoever else, on top of Netflix, will soon become cost prohibitive. Doing without isn't a consideration, so illegal alternatives will thrive. (Not that they haven't been, but Netflix was sufficiently convenient that most people didn't bother.)
- shantly 7y ago
  It's more about the convenience than the price, for me. I'd pay $30, maybe $40, per month for access to basically anything I want to watch (past that I may as well buy as I watch, and even at $40 I'd have to do the math to make sure it's sensible). It's having to keep up with several subscriptions, having to figure out where something is when I want to watch it, inconveniences like logging in on a new device, expired sessions on devices that don't have password managers (or keyboards...), multiple different interfaces (for basically the same thing) to stay familiar with, crap like that.
  - lonelappde 7y ago
    Google Search deep-links from approximately every supported movie to the steaming provider that supports it. Just as easy as Popcorn Time.
    - lstamour 7y ago
      If you’re in the US. There’s significantly less support for niche, specialist streaming sites as well as non-US, country-specific listings. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve clicked a Google result for a movie on Netflix only to have it be for a different country or currently unavailable...
    - shantly 7y ago
      Just tried it with Mission Impossible: Fallout, which I just watched the other day on Amazon Prime's streaming thingy. Google search results give me a list of purchase options across the top in a little box, including Amazon, so that's good. Doesn't say I can stream it but I guess it doesn't know I'm logged in & have prime, which it shouldn't, so that's fine too I guess, but it doesn't tell me I could stream it with subscriptions to any of those places, just tells me purchase prices. Oh well, I happen to know it's streaming on Amazon in this case, which is cheating, but whatever. I click it. It takes me to Amazon, where I am already logged in. I can watch the trailer or "buy" (digital purchase, so "long term rental") it for $20(!). There's no indication I can stream it with Prime. Even knowing it's available I can't figure out how to do it from this screen—I'd have to just search again on Amazon and hope for the best.
      - cwkoss 7y ago
        Prime video has very user-hostile UX because they are simultaneously trying to provide an already-paid-for service and upsell other ones. Video 'rentals' are grossly overpriced. I've never rented anything from Prime, and their prices would have to drop to about 10% for me to feel like I'm getting value. I think ~$0.25/hr would be fair. Media companies are resistant to discounting the cost of discrete pieces of content despite the supply of entertaining free video exploding a thousand fold in the past decade.
- Freak_NL 7y ago
  It'll be interesting to see what happens. I do wonder if the threat of persecution isn't too high for piracy to become a significant market changing factor again though.
- parliament32 7y ago
  Video piracy is absolutely making a comeback. Most of the pirates I knew slowly drifted away from the scene over the last few years, just because Netflix was so easy and cheap. But with so many studios pulling their content, I keep hearing comments about people firing up their seedboxes again and getting back in with their old trackers. It was a nice little golden age for a few years, shame things can't stay this way forever because of corporate greed. Personally I think I'll cancel my Netflix soon. There really isn't much quality content anymore, there have been zero improvements to the recommender system despite users' griping, and the prices keep getting higher.
devoply 7y ago
I just saw some Evian water in a nice container to spray on people's faces for $8. The market in the Western world has jumped the shark. It'll put up with many things thrown at it.
ninth_ant 7y ago
> An e-book should in all fairness cost perhaps a third or fourth of a paper book The market is not about fairness. The prices are about what some segment of the market will pay. > it is hard not to see that the market is simply not offering the best solution. They are selling physical books for folks who want the traditional experience and the reuse benefits you describe, and Ebooks for folks who want the convenience of that experience. So they continue to cater to their paying customers. It doesn’t seem reasonable to follow a race to the bottom with people who pirate ebooks. Some folks just do not pay for content. One side effect of higher prices of the traditional publishers is that it opens a door to self published authors offering books in the lower price range you mention. These are often quite popular so obviously they are aware of the price point impact but for now are happy with capturing the premium market. > Compare this with piracy in games, music, and video, which is comparatively rare Can you cite figures for that? I would expect video and music and pc games to all have far higher rates of piracy.
- Freak_NL 7y ago
  > The market is not about fairness. The prices are about what some segment of the market will pay. It's all about perceived fairness. If a price doesn't seem fair and alternatives exists (e.g., paper books, piracy), consumers look elsewhere. > One side effect of higher prices of the traditional publishers is that it opens a door to self published authors offering books in the lower price range you mention. The masses want the new John Grisham, Danielle Steel, or whatever is popular right now. The odd self-published author gaining a small audience does not offset this. > […] but for now are happy with capturing the premium market. […] Can you cite figures for that? I would expect video and music and pc games to all have far higher rates of piracy. The publishing industry is rather miffed at not getting as far with e-books as they thought they might get. I don't have exact figures (although they shouldn't be hard to find), but publishers and their representative bodies have been complaining about e-book piracy in the media a lot. In 2014 Dutch research company GfK estimated that only 10% of e-books on e-readers was paid for legally: https://www.ad.nl/economie/e-readers-staan-vol-met-illegale-boeken~ae4b1f74/ https://www.ad.nl/economie/e-readers-staan-vol-met-illegale-... An interesting related article from a Dutch newspaper from a month ago for who can read it: https://www.volkskrant.nl/cultuur-media/keurige-boekendieven-hele-leesclubs-doen-samen-met-een-e-book~bc49076f/ https://www.volkskrant.nl/cultuur-media/keurige-boekendieven... Nobody bats an eyelash at loading hundreds of pirated epubs on grandpa's new e-reader, and book clubs happily share their digital copies in Facebook groups. The situation may vary by country, but in the Netherlands the vast majority of people pay for cable television or streaming services like Netflix, buy CD's or tracks on ITunes or subscribe to Spotify, and game on consoles or use Steam. Piracy is marginal; except for e-books, where it is commonplace.
johnisgood 7y ago
> E-books lack the ability to share, sell, and pass it on. How so? If you have the PDF file, it should be pretty easy to do all of these. Some or all of them may be illegal, but it is not the same as lacking the ability. If it is DRM-protected, there are still ways around it.
- boring_twenties 7y ago
  PDF is not a suitable format for ebooks, which is why epub and mobi exist.
  - johnisgood 7y ago
    My experience differs from yours. Most, if not all of my e-books have been PDF. They work fine, and look absolutely great both on my PC, and my e-book reader. Epub and mobi on the other hand are horrible for medical books, for one. Most importantly, my point is being ignored. I could have used epub instead as an example. It is irrelevant to the point I was making. I am not interested in a war over e-book formats.

fragmede 7y ago

Video piracy's gone down specifically due to Netflix. As each brand stops allowing Neflix to host their content, and as long as income remains to flat for a large portion of America, I'm expecting video piracy to make a comeback as soon as people remember it exists. Subscribing to HBO, CBS, Disney, and whoever else, on top of Netflix, will soon become cost prohibitive. Doing without isn't a consideration, so illegal alternatives will thrive. (Not that they haven't been, but Netflix was sufficiently convenient that most people didn't bother.)

shantly 7y ago
It's more about the convenience than the price, for me. I'd pay $30, maybe $40, per month for access to basically anything I want to watch (past that I may as well buy as I watch, and even at $40 I'd have to do the math to make sure it's sensible). It's having to keep up with several subscriptions, having to figure out where something is when I want to watch it, inconveniences like logging in on a new device, expired sessions on devices that don't have password managers (or keyboards...), multiple different interfaces (for basically the same thing) to stay familiar with, crap like that.
- lonelappde 7y ago
  Google Search deep-links from approximately every supported movie to the steaming provider that supports it. Just as easy as Popcorn Time.
  - lstamour 7y ago
    If you’re in the US. There’s significantly less support for niche, specialist streaming sites as well as non-US, country-specific listings. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve clicked a Google result for a movie on Netflix only to have it be for a different country or currently unavailable...
  - shantly 7y ago
    Just tried it with Mission Impossible: Fallout, which I just watched the other day on Amazon Prime's streaming thingy. Google search results give me a list of purchase options across the top in a little box, including Amazon, so that's good. Doesn't say I can stream it but I guess it doesn't know I'm logged in & have prime, which it shouldn't, so that's fine too I guess, but it doesn't tell me I could stream it with subscriptions to any of those places, just tells me purchase prices. Oh well, I happen to know it's streaming on Amazon in this case, which is cheating, but whatever. I click it. It takes me to Amazon, where I am already logged in. I can watch the trailer or "buy" (digital purchase, so "long term rental") it for $20(!). There's no indication I can stream it with Prime. Even knowing it's available I can't figure out how to do it from this screen—I'd have to just search again on Amazon and hope for the best.
    - cwkoss 7y ago
      Prime video has very user-hostile UX because they are simultaneously trying to provide an already-paid-for service and upsell other ones. Video 'rentals' are grossly overpriced. I've never rented anything from Prime, and their prices would have to drop to about 10% for me to feel like I'm getting value. I think ~$0.25/hr would be fair. Media companies are resistant to discounting the cost of discrete pieces of content despite the supply of entertaining free video exploding a thousand fold in the past decade.
Freak_NL 7y ago
It'll be interesting to see what happens. I do wonder if the threat of persecution isn't too high for piracy to become a significant market changing factor again though.
parliament32 7y ago
Video piracy is absolutely making a comeback. Most of the pirates I knew slowly drifted away from the scene over the last few years, just because Netflix was so easy and cheap. But with so many studios pulling their content, I keep hearing comments about people firing up their seedboxes again and getting back in with their old trackers. It was a nice little golden age for a few years, shame things can't stay this way forever because of corporate greed. Personally I think I'll cancel my Netflix soon. There really isn't much quality content anymore, there have been zero improvements to the recommender system despite users' griping, and the prices keep getting higher.

devoply 7y ago

I just saw some Evian water in a nice container to spray on people's faces for $8. The market in the Western world has jumped the shark. It'll put up with many things thrown at it.

ninth_ant 7y ago

> An e-book should in all fairness cost perhaps a third or fourth of a paper book The market is not about fairness. The prices are about what some segment of the market will pay. > it is hard not to see that the market is simply not offering the best solution. They are selling physical books for folks who want the traditional experience and the reuse benefits you describe, and Ebooks for folks who want the convenience of that experience. So they continue to cater to their paying customers. It doesn’t seem reasonable to follow a race to the bottom with people who pirate ebooks. Some folks just do not pay for content. One side effect of higher prices of the traditional publishers is that it opens a door to self published authors offering books in the lower price range you mention. These are often quite popular so obviously they are aware of the price point impact but for now are happy with capturing the premium market. > Compare this with piracy in games, music, and video, which is comparatively rare Can you cite figures for that? I would expect video and music and pc games to all have far higher rates of piracy.

Freak_NL 7y ago
> The market is not about fairness. The prices are about what some segment of the market will pay. It's all about perceived fairness. If a price doesn't seem fair and alternatives exists (e.g., paper books, piracy), consumers look elsewhere. > One side effect of higher prices of the traditional publishers is that it opens a door to self published authors offering books in the lower price range you mention. The masses want the new John Grisham, Danielle Steel, or whatever is popular right now. The odd self-published author gaining a small audience does not offset this. > […] but for now are happy with capturing the premium market. […] Can you cite figures for that? I would expect video and music and pc games to all have far higher rates of piracy. The publishing industry is rather miffed at not getting as far with e-books as they thought they might get. I don't have exact figures (although they shouldn't be hard to find), but publishers and their representative bodies have been complaining about e-book piracy in the media a lot. In 2014 Dutch research company GfK estimated that only 10% of e-books on e-readers was paid for legally: https://www.ad.nl/economie/e-readers-staan-vol-met-illegale-boeken~ae4b1f74/ https://www.ad.nl/economie/e-readers-staan-vol-met-illegale-... An interesting related article from a Dutch newspaper from a month ago for who can read it: https://www.volkskrant.nl/cultuur-media/keurige-boekendieven-hele-leesclubs-doen-samen-met-een-e-book~bc49076f/ https://www.volkskrant.nl/cultuur-media/keurige-boekendieven... Nobody bats an eyelash at loading hundreds of pirated epubs on grandpa's new e-reader, and book clubs happily share their digital copies in Facebook groups. The situation may vary by country, but in the Netherlands the vast majority of people pay for cable television or streaming services like Netflix, buy CD's or tracks on ITunes or subscribe to Spotify, and game on consoles or use Steam. Piracy is marginal; except for e-books, where it is commonplace.

johnisgood 7y ago

> E-books lack the ability to share, sell, and pass it on. How so? If you have the PDF file, it should be pretty easy to do all of these. Some or all of them may be illegal, but it is not the same as lacking the ability. If it is DRM-protected, there are still ways around it.

boring_twenties 7y ago
PDF is not a suitable format for ebooks, which is why epub and mobi exist.
- johnisgood 7y ago
  My experience differs from yours. Most, if not all of my e-books have been PDF. They work fine, and look absolutely great both on my PC, and my e-book reader. Epub and mobi on the other hand are horrible for medical books, for one. Most importantly, my point is being ignored. I could have used epub instead as an example. It is irrelevant to the point I was making. I am not interested in a war over e-book formats.