5 ms·
10,000 people that sounds like an overkill
by qaq 7y ago
10,000 people that sounds like an overkill
- codeulike 7y agoI don't know, how many cars do they have on the road? Must be at least 50 million or so. So 10,000 coders for 50 million users. And these users are, you know, driving cars around, so its kindof important to get the software right. This sounds like a smart move by VW. Essentially Tesla are showing the way forwards here, being the first automaker to take software seriously.
- hobofan 7y agoThe number of engineers working at Facebook is in the same ballpark and they have a few billion users. At the same time the number of car platforms is increasingly consolidated and in complete control of the manufacturers. > And these users are, you know, driving cars around, so its kindof important to get the software right. That's not something you achieve by throwing more engineers at the problem.
- codeulike 7y agoNo one said they were all engineers.
- baybal2 7y agoYes, same feeling. If anything is wrong with Volkswagen, it is not their OS. Reminds me of when Renault bought VAZ, the first thing VAZ did with new money was to boast of making "the first Russian car with a computer." Them adding a computer to a car that falls apart as you drive just made Lada a shitty car with a computer, from a plainly shitty car.
- tannhaeuser 7y agoReminds me of a cheap joke that made the rounds in post-unification Germany: > Q: What's a Trabi [1] with a pocket calculator glued to the steering wheel? > A: Knight Rider [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trabant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trabant
- lnsru 7y agoYou will have some ISO26262 compliance managers, tons of safety managers, many many documentation writers. This software also must be tested with corresponding hardware, couple hundred people will look after this hardware alone. It’s not another app, it’s software tied to hardware and this is always slow and expensive.
- virtualritz 7y agoHow big was the engineering team that did the software for the Apollo guidance computer? Actually, I was unable to find the answer to that question.
- lnsru 7y agoWhat about first Apple’s computer? It was designed by a single guy. Edit: “Margaret Hamilton led a team of 350 people to design the software behind the Apollo 11 mission.” Source: https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2019/07/underappreciated-power-apollo-computer/594121/ https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2019/07/underapp...
- virtualritz 7y agoI think this paints the wrong picture. "The peak activity occurred one year earlier in 1968 with a manpower total of 350." [1] I have a hard time believing the team was this size throughout the time the project lasted -- above quote seems to 2nd this. [1] http://klabs.org/history/history_docs/mit_docs/1711.pdf http://klabs.org/history/history_docs/mit_docs/1711.pdf
- benj111 7y agoThe Apollo Guidance Computer had 36,864 16 bit words of rom [1]. I don't think there's really enough there for 10000 people to get their teeth into. Although it was core rope memory, and it's unclear to me whether you would include the weavers in that total. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_Computer https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_Computer
- donohoe 7y agoIt’s is. Throwing this many people at the problem will likely slow it down and lead to a host of issues.
- yitchelle 7y agoThis sounds like an underestimation to me. An ECU in car can consume up a team of 200 to 250 engineering resource. This only for those working directly on the ECUs. Add to it the secondary functions, the numbers will explode.
- virtualritz 7y agoI worked on the infotainment part of recently released top brand car's software. The number of engineers on that was flabbergasting. Way higher than your number. But the reason was not that it was needed. The reasons were: - The approach to developing software (pure waterfall, with lots of agile BS bingo terms as seasoning). As someone else mentioned: Old car companies do not understand software. I may add: At all. - Upper management throwing more resources at missed deadlines (that were moving all the time anyway). Every seasoned developer knows that more developers will slow you down. Nine women can't have a baby in one month. - Trying to understand the issues with the project getting pear shaped by looking at burn down charts. Once I was on a way to one of these meetings in an elevator and someone said: "Gentlemen, are you also on going to our weekly 'Men who stare at graphs' ritual?" Most senior engineering folks agreed that the work hundreds of developers, dozens of engineering managers, PMs, POs, agile coaches and god-knows-what-other-fancy-title people were doing could be done by a team of around 25. I completely agree and as such parent is right. 5k-10k people is complete overkill. But then -- given how these companies work -- it is not. It is indeed an underestimation and the very reason this will go nowhere. A few cars will be released with this OS and then it will be replaced by something much better that someone else, not an old car company, was doing in the meantime.
- gtirloni 7y agoI wish they would stick to traditional waterfall development, even NASA-style if they could afford it, for something as critical as a vehicle OS.
- yitchelle 7y agoI have also worked in the infotainment space, now in powertrain space. It seems that the infotainment teams seems to be 2x to 3x the size of a typical automotive engineering team. Sometimes, I feel that infotainment products are more subjective than the other car functions. eg, Does that "ding" sound notification reflect the values of our brand vs Can the maximum power be transferred to the rear wheels in the snow within 300ms, subject questions vs objective questions. Subjective questions needs more study and analysis, leading to more engineers.
- GoToRO 7y agoCar companies don't understand software development. For them is the same as making a bolt.
- fgonzag 7y agoThe dash for a car has over 20 software engineers working on it if you count QA. That's a simple component... Now multiply that by every component that has a CPU in it (every electronic component in the car) and getting to 10k software engineers as seems quite easy.