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China has annexed territory from Vietnam, Indonesia, Malaysia, Brunei, and The Philippines in the last ten years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine-Dash_Line

China has annexed territory from Vietnam, Indonesia, Malaysia, Brunei, and The Philippines in the last ten years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine-Dash_Line https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine-Dash_Line

yorwba 7y ago
All of these countries have overlapping territorial claims in the area; portraying the illegitimacy of China's claims as "annexing" "their" territory is misleading when the other claims are just as illegitimate. It's not like there's a local island population that could object to the occupation, so control effectively belongs to whoever establishes a permanent presence first. It's obviously not an ideal state of affairs, but it also doesn't indicate a propensity of the current Chinese government to invade populated territory any more than for the other countries.
- peteretep 7y ago
  This feels like straight propaganda... > when the other claims are just as illegitimate This is untrue, re: «On 12 July 2016, an arbitral tribunal constituted under Annex VII to the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea ruled that China has no legal basis to claim "historic rights" within its nine-dash line in a case brought by the Philippines» > All of these countries have overlapping This is massively disingenuous, because only China is putting military bases next to other countries and then chasing off their fishermen. Locate Mischief Reef on a map, and then tell me China isn’t annexing Phillipine territory with a straight face.
  - yorwba 7y ago
    Read carefully. > China has no legal basis to claim "historic rights" within its nine-dash line in a case brought by the Philippines The tribunal did not find that the Philippines had such a legal basis either. Mischief Reef is not in the Philippines' territorial waters, which only extend 12 nautical miles. It is within their exclusive economic zone, which means that China would not be allowed to e.g. drill for oil. But the surface is international waters and no nation has the right to obstruct another's vessels there. > only China is putting military bases next to other countries Vietnam: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namyit_Island https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namyit_Island Malaysia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swallow_Reef https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swallow_Reef Taiwan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiping_Island https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiping_Island
    - peteretep 7y ago
      > It is within their exclusive economic zone Yes it is, and China has put a military base there and is chasing out Filipino citizens.
      - yorwba 7y ago
        They're obstructing maritime traffic in international waters, which is a different offense from annexing another country's territory.
chrischen 7y ago
As yorwba pointed out, the inherent bias in your presentation of the facts is emblematic of the very propaganda your opponent, China, employs. If you employ the same tactics to achieve your political goals, are you really any different? What happens when your goals (presumably aligned with American goals), changes to something less justifiable like the Iraq war? If you employ the same tactics then whatever reason you have for the day can be thrown out the window because the real reason is political (it enriches yourself over others).
- peteretep 7y ago
  > your opponent, China Now there’s a straw man

yorwba 7y ago

All of these countries have overlapping territorial claims in the area; portraying the illegitimacy of China's claims as "annexing" "their" territory is misleading when the other claims are just as illegitimate. It's not like there's a local island population that could object to the occupation, so control effectively belongs to whoever establishes a permanent presence first. It's obviously not an ideal state of affairs, but it also doesn't indicate a propensity of the current Chinese government to invade populated territory any more than for the other countries.

peteretep 7y ago
This feels like straight propaganda... > when the other claims are just as illegitimate This is untrue, re: «On 12 July 2016, an arbitral tribunal constituted under Annex VII to the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea ruled that China has no legal basis to claim "historic rights" within its nine-dash line in a case brought by the Philippines» > All of these countries have overlapping This is massively disingenuous, because only China is putting military bases next to other countries and then chasing off their fishermen. Locate Mischief Reef on a map, and then tell me China isn’t annexing Phillipine territory with a straight face.
- yorwba 7y ago
  Read carefully. > China has no legal basis to claim "historic rights" within its nine-dash line in a case brought by the Philippines The tribunal did not find that the Philippines had such a legal basis either. Mischief Reef is not in the Philippines' territorial waters, which only extend 12 nautical miles. It is within their exclusive economic zone, which means that China would not be allowed to e.g. drill for oil. But the surface is international waters and no nation has the right to obstruct another's vessels there. > only China is putting military bases next to other countries Vietnam: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namyit_Island https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namyit_Island Malaysia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swallow_Reef https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swallow_Reef Taiwan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiping_Island https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiping_Island
  - peteretep 7y ago
    > It is within their exclusive economic zone Yes it is, and China has put a military base there and is chasing out Filipino citizens.
    - yorwba 7y ago
      They're obstructing maritime traffic in international waters, which is a different offense from annexing another country's territory.

chrischen 7y ago

As yorwba pointed out, the inherent bias in your presentation of the facts is emblematic of the very propaganda your opponent, China, employs. If you employ the same tactics to achieve your political goals, are you really any different? What happens when your goals (presumably aligned with American goals), changes to something less justifiable like the Iraq war? If you employ the same tactics then whatever reason you have for the day can be thrown out the window because the real reason is political (it enriches yourself over others).

peteretep 7y ago
> your opponent, China Now there’s a straw man