6 ms·

I just tried this. I get rendering artifacts when scrolling. BUT! The scroll speed is absolutely wonderful. I've tried all the UIs and always find myself going

I just tried this. I get rendering artifacts when scrolling. BUT! The scroll speed is absolutely wonderful. I've tried all the UIs and always find myself going back to the terminal, but this is something else. Although I have to say fvim looks tempting as well and vimr(I'm not on MacOS anymore). For those people mocking vim users and bragging about their IDE's. With languageserver and the other kind of refactoring daemons available for a whole host of languages nowadays these editors are much closer to IDE's than ever before. The only things that are not really first class citizens are IMHO: 1. refactoring(outside of C++ and Java) 2. profiling 3. breakpoints EDIT: I'm quite happy with the tmux setup I have but thanks for the suggestions. The main problem I see with neovim is that the separation of the python library while nice for update iterations causes issues with virtual environments.

vhakulinen 7y ago
> I get rendering artifacts when scrolling. If you're using pango 1.44, that is a known issue and there really isn't a proper workaround yet. Quite a few applications using grid based applications are currently broken with pango 1.44.
eitland 7y ago
> For those people mocking vim users and bragging about their IDE's. Haven't seen this, -it usually goes the other way: You're doing it wrong, you should use vim! (I know enough vim to effectively use it to edit configs etc, but I just prefer my IDEs.)
- chapium 7y ago
  Use vim plugins for your favorite ide and enjoy both! (or not all, we all have preferences:))
xyproto 7y ago
Using NeoVim with nvim-qt should not result in any rendering artifacts.
Crinus 7y ago
> With languageserver and the other kind of refactoring daemons available for a whole host of languages nowadays these editors are much closer to IDE's than ever before. Most likely true, though i think the "I" part of "IDE" is woefully ignored and (at least to me) is much more important than a hodgepodge of barely related programs strung together with duct tape.
- rjzzleep 7y ago
  That's precisely what every single python IDE does. They take isort, black, jedi or whatever other engine together and stitch them together in a user transparent way. Omnisharp was literally the attempt of MonoDevelop to create an open source alternative to the Resharper engine. The completion agents for VIM or VSCode do the presentation layer for the lower layer(the language server daemons, or custom completion agents. YouCompleteMe however is all that together in one not as fancy but I like it). I get where you're coming from, but basically the difference is that vim by itself is a raw editor and until neovim came along never made an effort to merge the functionality that was required for something like this to happen in a nice fashion. Editors like Oni are basically distributions like VSCode with defaults that are more inline with what you say plus a nicer presentation layer.
  - Crinus 7y ago
    Yeah well, it isn't like Python IDE are much better :-P. I think in general most languages with unix-ish background do not tend to have truly integrated development environments as unix was always about stitching together stuff. Only Borland somewhat managed to make real integrated environments for their C/C++ tools and even then it wasn't as good as the stuff they had better control over (turbo pascal, delphi, etc). Java and NetBeans is (or was, before Oracle botched it) probably the best IDE (in terms of integration) for a toolset with a unixy background. Though none of those compare to something like Smalltalk, Lisp or even Microsoft's QBasic and (pre-.NET) Visual Basic. Note that i'm talking about how integrated the IDE is with the language and its tools, not about how good or bad the language is.
    - 7y ago
pnako 7y ago
I'm not going to mock you, but why not just use an IDE with a vi(m) mode or plugin in the first place, if you really want all those features? Modern IDEs are following a platform + plugins architecture that is probably as flexible but more robust than whatever you can tape together around vim.
- drbojingle 7y ago
  Vim has a plugin architecture. The built in language sucks balls but it does work.
- feanaro 7y ago
  vim modes in IDEs are often inadequate (if this is not immediately obvious, you probably just don't use vim as fully as possible). The IDEs are often (too) complex in the sense of a hodgepodge of GUI options and menus which are hard to navigate. You often can't put the IDE configuration in a version control system easily. IDEs are often sluggish. The plugin system for vim is superior to most IDEs. It's not that using an IDE with a vim mode is not a possible viable alternative, but it's a game of trade-offs, as usual.
  - pvinis 7y ago
    I agree completely. For me, for now, I have vscode with vim emulation. I find that it's more convenient to have everything vscode has + vim keys for a lot of things, than have all of vim + try to make vim do what I like from vscode. I really hope in the future I'll find the time to do that, but for now I am content. It's always a trade-off.
    - cagmz 7y ago
      Have you noticed any sluggishness when using Vim commands in VS Code? I use nvim + tmux as my go to and it's pretty responsive (still has trouble catching up to me sometimes) but I often have to wait for VS Code.
      - pvinis 7y ago
coldtea 7y ago
>Although I have to say fvim looks tempting as well Visited its page to have a look... I'm not sure why they'd put a screenshot with a variable width font, which automatically puts lots of people off when it comes to coding... It's like having a screenshot of your bitmap editor, and showing it editing goatse.cx...
- franek 7y ago
  The option to use proportional fonts is a very rare feature in vim-like text editors (the only other way I know of is to use terminal vim in mlterm), so for people who want this the screenshot is good advertisement. In fact, after reading you comment, I promptly startet to install it (still compiling as I type this). My use-case is creative writing: I'm very used to vim keybindings from coding, but prefer to have a variable-width fonts for writing.
  - v-yadli 7y ago
    fvim author here. The font in the screenshot is `Iosevka Slab` which _is_ monospace -- `fvim` currently syncs with the neovim grid system and doesn't support proportional fonts well. Sorry about the confusion -- I think you've already discovered that (after 46 minutes)!
    - franek 7y ago
      Wow, I was completely fooled by the serifs and my excitement. Thank you for clearing that up!
    - coldtea 7y ago
      >The font in the screenshot is `Iosevka Slab` which _is_ monospace -- `fvim` currently syncs with the neovim grid system and doesn't support proportional fonts well. Aha, looked like a proportional font was used to me. I'd use a more well designed monospace font for the first impression!
kps 7y ago
I just wish vim+languageserver would catch up to where vim+mlcscope was fifteen years ago. (Specifically, finer-grained distinctions that just references to a symbol, e.g. assignments and calls.)
- Asooka 7y ago
  Have you tried rtags?
euoia 7y ago
I am happy with Neovim in a terminal too. But I wanted I wanted it running as a separate application that I could launch and switch to, so I downloaded the iTerm2 source code and changed the icon and application name and created a profile that just runs Neovim. I find this works well, but maybe someone knows a simpler way, or a generic way, to do this on OS X?
- rjzzleep 7y ago
  I think you can use an applescript for that. I think you can compile the applescript to a .app and then run it. But it's been a while since I was in OSX https://www.iterm2.com/documentation-scripting.html https://www.iterm2.com/documentation-scripting.html

vhakulinen 7y ago

> I get rendering artifacts when scrolling. If you're using pango 1.44, that is a known issue and there really isn't a proper workaround yet. Quite a few applications using grid based applications are currently broken with pango 1.44.

eitland 7y ago

> For those people mocking vim users and bragging about their IDE's. Haven't seen this, -it usually goes the other way: You're doing it wrong, you should use vim! (I know enough vim to effectively use it to edit configs etc, but I just prefer my IDEs.)

chapium 7y ago
Use vim plugins for your favorite ide and enjoy both! (or not all, we all have preferences:))

xyproto 7y ago

Using NeoVim with nvim-qt should not result in any rendering artifacts.

Crinus 7y ago

> With languageserver and the other kind of refactoring daemons available for a whole host of languages nowadays these editors are much closer to IDE's than ever before. Most likely true, though i think the "I" part of "IDE" is woefully ignored and (at least to me) is much more important than a hodgepodge of barely related programs strung together with duct tape.

rjzzleep 7y ago
That's precisely what every single python IDE does. They take isort, black, jedi or whatever other engine together and stitch them together in a user transparent way. Omnisharp was literally the attempt of MonoDevelop to create an open source alternative to the Resharper engine. The completion agents for VIM or VSCode do the presentation layer for the lower layer(the language server daemons, or custom completion agents. YouCompleteMe however is all that together in one not as fancy but I like it). I get where you're coming from, but basically the difference is that vim by itself is a raw editor and until neovim came along never made an effort to merge the functionality that was required for something like this to happen in a nice fashion. Editors like Oni are basically distributions like VSCode with defaults that are more inline with what you say plus a nicer presentation layer.
- Crinus 7y ago
  Yeah well, it isn't like Python IDE are much better :-P. I think in general most languages with unix-ish background do not tend to have truly integrated development environments as unix was always about stitching together stuff. Only Borland somewhat managed to make real integrated environments for their C/C++ tools and even then it wasn't as good as the stuff they had better control over (turbo pascal, delphi, etc). Java and NetBeans is (or was, before Oracle botched it) probably the best IDE (in terms of integration) for a toolset with a unixy background. Though none of those compare to something like Smalltalk, Lisp or even Microsoft's QBasic and (pre-.NET) Visual Basic. Note that i'm talking about how integrated the IDE is with the language and its tools, not about how good or bad the language is.
  - 7y ago

pnako 7y ago

I'm not going to mock you, but why not just use an IDE with a vi(m) mode or plugin in the first place, if you really want all those features? Modern IDEs are following a platform + plugins architecture that is probably as flexible but more robust than whatever you can tape together around vim.

drbojingle 7y ago
Vim has a plugin architecture. The built in language sucks balls but it does work.
feanaro 7y ago
vim modes in IDEs are often inadequate (if this is not immediately obvious, you probably just don't use vim as fully as possible). The IDEs are often (too) complex in the sense of a hodgepodge of GUI options and menus which are hard to navigate. You often can't put the IDE configuration in a version control system easily. IDEs are often sluggish. The plugin system for vim is superior to most IDEs. It's not that using an IDE with a vim mode is not a possible viable alternative, but it's a game of trade-offs, as usual.
- pvinis 7y ago
  I agree completely. For me, for now, I have vscode with vim emulation. I find that it's more convenient to have everything vscode has + vim keys for a lot of things, than have all of vim + try to make vim do what I like from vscode. I really hope in the future I'll find the time to do that, but for now I am content. It's always a trade-off.
  - cagmz 7y ago
    Have you noticed any sluggishness when using Vim commands in VS Code? I use nvim + tmux as my go to and it's pretty responsive (still has trouble catching up to me sometimes) but I often have to wait for VS Code.
    - pvinis 7y ago

coldtea 7y ago

>Although I have to say fvim looks tempting as well Visited its page to have a look... I'm not sure why they'd put a screenshot with a variable width font, which automatically puts lots of people off when it comes to coding... It's like having a screenshot of your bitmap editor, and showing it editing goatse.cx...

franek 7y ago
The option to use proportional fonts is a very rare feature in vim-like text editors (the only other way I know of is to use terminal vim in mlterm), so for people who want this the screenshot is good advertisement. In fact, after reading you comment, I promptly startet to install it (still compiling as I type this). My use-case is creative writing: I'm very used to vim keybindings from coding, but prefer to have a variable-width fonts for writing.
- v-yadli 7y ago
  fvim author here. The font in the screenshot is `Iosevka Slab` which _is_ monospace -- `fvim` currently syncs with the neovim grid system and doesn't support proportional fonts well. Sorry about the confusion -- I think you've already discovered that (after 46 minutes)!
  - franek 7y ago
    Wow, I was completely fooled by the serifs and my excitement. Thank you for clearing that up!
  - coldtea 7y ago
    >The font in the screenshot is `Iosevka Slab` which _is_ monospace -- `fvim` currently syncs with the neovim grid system and doesn't support proportional fonts well. Aha, looked like a proportional font was used to me. I'd use a more well designed monospace font for the first impression!

kps 7y ago

I just wish vim+languageserver would catch up to where vim+mlcscope was fifteen years ago. (Specifically, finer-grained distinctions that just references to a symbol, e.g. assignments and calls.)

Asooka 7y ago
Have you tried rtags?

euoia 7y ago

I am happy with Neovim in a terminal too. But I wanted I wanted it running as a separate application that I could launch and switch to, so I downloaded the iTerm2 source code and changed the icon and application name and created a profile that just runs Neovim. I find this works well, but maybe someone knows a simpler way, or a generic way, to do this on OS X?

rjzzleep 7y ago
I think you can use an applescript for that. I think you can compile the applescript to a .app and then run it. But it's been a while since I was in OSX https://www.iterm2.com/documentation-scripting.html https://www.iterm2.com/documentation-scripting.html