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Is Turkey really that much progressive than Iran ? Turkey is quite connected to Germany even though many don't want to admit that, so I would agree that, super

Is Turkey really that much progressive than Iran ? Turkey is quite connected to Germany even though many don't want to admit that, so I would agree that, superficially at least, it looks more western-ish. But IIRC a couple of years ago there was a coup attempt in Turkey, lots of journalists, academics, judges, etc. were instantaneously thrown into jail, etc. So I'm unsure how much of that "western-look" that Turkey has is real and how much is just a facade. Is there democracy in Turkey? Is there freedom of opinion? Freedom of press? Religious freedom? I'm not arguing whether Iran is better or worse, and I'm not suggesting that we should only measure both countries in, e.g., LGBT rights, but while Turkey might not be exactly Iran, I actually put closer to Iran than to its Greek neighbor in the "progressive" scale.

yyyk 7y ago
Turkey is getting worse and worse, but there's still no outright overt enforcement of religious norms and a secular opposition is still allowed to run in meaningful elections. Closer to Iran than Greece? hmm.. sure. But it's not there just yet.
quotz 7y ago
In terms of Greece’s liberal progressive spectrum, in fact, the tradition of a newly wed bride’s father gifting the groom a house/apt is still a thing. I know because I am from the Balkans. As much as you think that Greece is progressive, its actually not, in the western sense of the word. Also, I dont really believe that one can have an individual’s opinion of progressiveness, or whether ones left wing or right wing, I believe that most things people believe in are there because of their herd mentality, and of course theres the wealthy and powerful people who are trying to keep the citizens in a status quo. Chomsky has a great book on this. Also, I believe it was Napoleon who said “Religion is why the poor havent murdered the rich yet”

yyyk 7y ago

Turkey is getting worse and worse, but there's still no outright overt enforcement of religious norms and a secular opposition is still allowed to run in meaningful elections. Closer to Iran than Greece? hmm.. sure. But it's not there just yet.

quotz 7y ago

In terms of Greece’s liberal progressive spectrum, in fact, the tradition of a newly wed bride’s father gifting the groom a house/apt is still a thing. I know because I am from the Balkans. As much as you think that Greece is progressive, its actually not, in the western sense of the word. Also, I dont really believe that one can have an individual’s opinion of progressiveness, or whether ones left wing or right wing, I believe that most things people believe in are there because of their herd mentality, and of course theres the wealthy and powerful people who are trying to keep the citizens in a status quo. Chomsky has a great book on this. Also, I believe it was Napoleon who said “Religion is why the poor havent murdered the rich yet”