6 ms·

Actually, most of Western opinion about Iran is misguided and plain wrong. Iran is really not as terrible as all the propaganda about it. In fact its quite much

by quotz 7y ago

Actually, most of Western opinion about Iran is misguided and plain wrong. Iran is really not as terrible as all the propaganda about it. In fact its quite much like Turkey, except the politicians are better and its not as corrupt.

daliusd 7y ago
Turkey by Western standards is not heaven either ;-) While I agree that are a lot of myths and false assumptions about Iran.
- cm2187 7y ago
  Well technically they are still in the process of joining the EU...
  - daliusd 7y ago
    Theoretically yes, practically nothing is happening: "Since 2016 accession negotiations have stalled.[7] The EU has accused and criticized Turkey for human rights violations and deficits in rule of law.[8] In 2017, EU officials expressed that planned Turkish policies violate the Copenhagen criteria of eligibility for an EU membership.[9] On 26 June 2018, the EU's General Affairs Council stated that "the Council notes that Turkey has been moving further away from the European Union. Turkey’s accession negotiations have therefore effectively come to a standstill and no further chapters can be considered for opening or closing and no further work towards the modernisation of the EU-Turkey Customs Union is foreseen."[10][11]" "20 February 2019 - EU parliament committee votes to suspend accession talks with Turkey." Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_of_Turkey_to_the_European_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_of_Turkey_to_the_Eur...
  - shademaan 7y ago
    I've never believed that will never actually happen. For all of turkeys public relations efforts pushing their euro identify, European countries don't care for the Turks, don't identify with them culturally, and will never allow it. Erdogan doesn't help their cause either, obviously.
coinerone 7y ago
For Iranian Women it is not allowed to ride a Bicycle in Public. "and its not as corrupt." -- au contraire!
- geff82 7y ago
  When you go there as a tourist, you will generally encounter zero corruption.
collyw 7y ago
You should blog about it and demonstrate how nice it is like this couple. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-49670973 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-49670973 "Our biggest motivation... is to hopefully inspire anyone wanting to travel, and also try to break the stigma around travelling to countries which get a bad wrap [sic] in the media,"
- rosege 7y ago
  Flying a drone in Iran as a foreigner is a pretty stupid thing to do. Especially near a military area. An as a foreigner you wouldn't know where that is - so they really shouldn't have done it. I say this as an Australian too - I've travelled a lot as well and you have to use a bit of common sense when in countries like Iran. Saying that I do wish for their safe release of course.
  - Moru 7y ago
    You would have problems in any country if you go around taking photos close to military areas. Even here in Sweden.
- fiblye 7y ago
  Assuming the claim of them flying drones is true, they’re pretty lucky. I think if there were Iranians flying drones near a US military base, prison would be an upgrade from whatever treatment they’d get.
yyyk 7y ago
Iran bans females from attending sports events and imposes mandatory hijab (e.g. [0]), Turkey does not. You can oppose Western policy if you like, but lets talk about the country's policies as they really are. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/10/iranian-female-football-fan-who-self-immolated-outside-court-dies https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/10/iranian-female...
- fluffything 7y ago
  Is Turkey really that much progressive than Iran ? Turkey is quite connected to Germany even though many don't want to admit that, so I would agree that, superficially at least, it looks more western-ish. But IIRC a couple of years ago there was a coup attempt in Turkey, lots of journalists, academics, judges, etc. were instantaneously thrown into jail, etc. So I'm unsure how much of that "western-look" that Turkey has is real and how much is just a facade. Is there democracy in Turkey? Is there freedom of opinion? Freedom of press? Religious freedom? I'm not arguing whether Iran is better or worse, and I'm not suggesting that we should only measure both countries in, e.g., LGBT rights, but while Turkey might not be exactly Iran, I actually put closer to Iran than to its Greek neighbor in the "progressive" scale.
  - yyyk 7y ago
    Turkey is getting worse and worse, but there's still no outright overt enforcement of religious norms and a secular opposition is still allowed to run in meaningful elections. Closer to Iran than Greece? hmm.. sure. But it's not there just yet.
  - quotz 7y ago
    In terms of Greece’s liberal progressive spectrum, in fact, the tradition of a newly wed bride’s father gifting the groom a house/apt is still a thing. I know because I am from the Balkans. As much as you think that Greece is progressive, its actually not, in the western sense of the word. Also, I dont really believe that one can have an individual’s opinion of progressiveness, or whether ones left wing or right wing, I believe that most things people believe in are there because of their herd mentality, and of course theres the wealthy and powerful people who are trying to keep the citizens in a status quo. Chomsky has a great book on this. Also, I believe it was Napoleon who said “Religion is why the poor havent murdered the rich yet”
cm2187 7y ago
...and the Hezbollah is a peaceful club of intellectuals organising protestation sittings. And the Guardians of the Revolution were driving through the crowd with sticks to keep the protesters safe.
- quotz 7y ago
  In some sense, the IRA was not anyhow different than Hezbollah, but look how infamous Hezbollah is. Its really just a paramilitary unit trying to balance the overpowered israel and saudi in the region. Its lebanons only defence, because the west bribes them very very often. In fact in the Balkans, my friends dad is a very very high ranking politician whos currently in power, and I for a fact know that he has made a lots of business deals with western officials, which in fact has made the country now leaning to the west instead of the east
achow 7y ago
Agree. It appears like any other Islamic country, street life is as 'normal' as it maybe in Dubai or Pakistan or Egypt. Dec 2018: Iran's Got Street Life https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJKL1Py_gEw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJKL1Py_gEw
jaredklewis 7y ago
I see your point, but I also feel like Turkey is a very low bar to jump over. Hardly a ringing endorsement to claim a country is as good as Turkey, a country with a ruling party that seems to have little interest in democracy, and firm control over the media, elections, and the judiciary.

by quotz 7y ago

daliusd 7y ago

Turkey by Western standards is not heaven either ;-) While I agree that are a lot of myths and false assumptions about Iran.

cm2187 7y ago
Well technically they are still in the process of joining the EU...
- daliusd 7y ago
  Theoretically yes, practically nothing is happening: "Since 2016 accession negotiations have stalled.[7] The EU has accused and criticized Turkey for human rights violations and deficits in rule of law.[8] In 2017, EU officials expressed that planned Turkish policies violate the Copenhagen criteria of eligibility for an EU membership.[9] On 26 June 2018, the EU's General Affairs Council stated that "the Council notes that Turkey has been moving further away from the European Union. Turkey’s accession negotiations have therefore effectively come to a standstill and no further chapters can be considered for opening or closing and no further work towards the modernisation of the EU-Turkey Customs Union is foreseen."[10][11]" "20 February 2019 - EU parliament committee votes to suspend accession talks with Turkey." Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_of_Turkey_to_the_European_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_of_Turkey_to_the_Eur...
- shademaan 7y ago
  I've never believed that will never actually happen. For all of turkeys public relations efforts pushing their euro identify, European countries don't care for the Turks, don't identify with them culturally, and will never allow it. Erdogan doesn't help their cause either, obviously.

coinerone 7y ago

For Iranian Women it is not allowed to ride a Bicycle in Public. "and its not as corrupt." -- au contraire!

geff82 7y ago
When you go there as a tourist, you will generally encounter zero corruption.

collyw 7y ago

You should blog about it and demonstrate how nice it is like this couple. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-49670973 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-49670973 "Our biggest motivation... is to hopefully inspire anyone wanting to travel, and also try to break the stigma around travelling to countries which get a bad wrap [sic] in the media,"

rosege 7y ago
Flying a drone in Iran as a foreigner is a pretty stupid thing to do. Especially near a military area. An as a foreigner you wouldn't know where that is - so they really shouldn't have done it. I say this as an Australian too - I've travelled a lot as well and you have to use a bit of common sense when in countries like Iran. Saying that I do wish for their safe release of course.
- Moru 7y ago
  You would have problems in any country if you go around taking photos close to military areas. Even here in Sweden.
fiblye 7y ago
Assuming the claim of them flying drones is true, they’re pretty lucky. I think if there were Iranians flying drones near a US military base, prison would be an upgrade from whatever treatment they’d get.

yyyk 7y ago

Iran bans females from attending sports events and imposes mandatory hijab (e.g. [0]), Turkey does not. You can oppose Western policy if you like, but lets talk about the country's policies as they really are. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/10/iranian-female-football-fan-who-self-immolated-outside-court-dies https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/10/iranian-female...

fluffything 7y ago
Is Turkey really that much progressive than Iran ? Turkey is quite connected to Germany even though many don't want to admit that, so I would agree that, superficially at least, it looks more western-ish. But IIRC a couple of years ago there was a coup attempt in Turkey, lots of journalists, academics, judges, etc. were instantaneously thrown into jail, etc. So I'm unsure how much of that "western-look" that Turkey has is real and how much is just a facade. Is there democracy in Turkey? Is there freedom of opinion? Freedom of press? Religious freedom? I'm not arguing whether Iran is better or worse, and I'm not suggesting that we should only measure both countries in, e.g., LGBT rights, but while Turkey might not be exactly Iran, I actually put closer to Iran than to its Greek neighbor in the "progressive" scale.
- yyyk 7y ago
  Turkey is getting worse and worse, but there's still no outright overt enforcement of religious norms and a secular opposition is still allowed to run in meaningful elections. Closer to Iran than Greece? hmm.. sure. But it's not there just yet.
- quotz 7y ago
  In terms of Greece’s liberal progressive spectrum, in fact, the tradition of a newly wed bride’s father gifting the groom a house/apt is still a thing. I know because I am from the Balkans. As much as you think that Greece is progressive, its actually not, in the western sense of the word. Also, I dont really believe that one can have an individual’s opinion of progressiveness, or whether ones left wing or right wing, I believe that most things people believe in are there because of their herd mentality, and of course theres the wealthy and powerful people who are trying to keep the citizens in a status quo. Chomsky has a great book on this. Also, I believe it was Napoleon who said “Religion is why the poor havent murdered the rich yet”

cm2187 7y ago

...and the Hezbollah is a peaceful club of intellectuals organising protestation sittings. And the Guardians of the Revolution were driving through the crowd with sticks to keep the protesters safe.

quotz 7y ago
In some sense, the IRA was not anyhow different than Hezbollah, but look how infamous Hezbollah is. Its really just a paramilitary unit trying to balance the overpowered israel and saudi in the region. Its lebanons only defence, because the west bribes them very very often. In fact in the Balkans, my friends dad is a very very high ranking politician whos currently in power, and I for a fact know that he has made a lots of business deals with western officials, which in fact has made the country now leaning to the west instead of the east

achow 7y ago

Agree. It appears like any other Islamic country, street life is as 'normal' as it maybe in Dubai or Pakistan or Egypt. Dec 2018: Iran's Got Street Life https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJKL1Py_gEw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJKL1Py_gEw

jaredklewis 7y ago

I see your point, but I also feel like Turkey is a very low bar to jump over. Hardly a ringing endorsement to claim a country is as good as Turkey, a country with a ruling party that seems to have little interest in democracy, and firm control over the media, elections, and the judiciary.