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Ableton is great and paved the way for a more creative and intuitive workflow! I switched from Cubase very early on and never looked back. That is, until I foun

Ableton is great and paved the way for a more creative and intuitive workflow! I switched from Cubase very early on and never looked back. That is, until I found Bitwig (https://www.bitwig.com https://www.bitwig.com) which supports Linux! They also deserve a shout out taking it even further!

kristiandupont 7y ago
Bitwig looks really promising. But how is the VST landscape? Is it even supported? EDIT: sorry, my question was about whether Linux supports VST. I would assume that Bitwig did at v0.1 :-)
- jcelerier 7y ago
  yes, both vst 2 and vst 3 ; and unlike ableton, bitwig integrates a 32 bit vst bridge and allows to run VSTs in external processes if some are crashy
- atoav 7y ago
  Longtime Bitwig user here that switched there after Ableton 9 which I used since the very start. Bitwig is quite similar to Ableton in terms of capabilities, I never tried this myself, but there seems to be a way (assuming you want Windows VSTs on Linux) https://answers.bitwig.com/questions/624/vst-windows-on-linux-with-bitwig https://answers.bitwig.com/questions/624/vst-windows-on-linu... I am perfectly happy with the built-in stuff however. Because of bitwigs extremely strong modulation engine the standard effects are probably the most powerful and expressive ones out there.
- w56rjrtyu6ru 7y ago
  I don't remember how well it integrated with Bitwig - but a few years ago VST support on Linux using Wine, Jack and Carla (https://github.com/falkTX/Carla https://github.com/falkTX/Carla) was pretty solid.
- OskarS 7y ago
  As a person developing VSTs, BitWig is supports them THE BEST. BitWig handles VSTs better than almost any other host, including (optional, but you should do it!) sandboxing and proper HiDPI support. You can absolutely make VSTs for Linux, but I imagine that very few people do.
- fhennig 7y ago
  I got bitwig because I am a heavy linux user and wanted to start making music. The software itself works well, it's really great, but with VSTs it's quite tricky. I got a couple to work that explicitly support linux, but for example Serum I couldn't get to work properly. Recently I decided that it's not work all the hassle, and setup a windows computer again. I want as little friction as possible, because the process of making electronic music is already hard enough by itself.
- dri_ft 7y ago
  As others have mentioned, linux does support VST plugins, as do a number of linux DAWs. But it's worth mentioning that the ecosystem is rather thin at the moment in terms of native VSTs. One solution is to install Windows-based VSTs in a Wine installation and then use linvst, a wrapper which presents those Windows-based VST dlls to a linux host and runs them with Wine. I found it a pain to set up in the first place, and it's hit-and-miss which plugins work in it, but once up and running it actually works smoothly enough, in my experience. (Larger, more complicated VSTs seem correspondingly less likely to work. Of ones that don't immediately work, some can be massaged into working with some tweaking of your wine setup. There's a webpage somewhere with a list of what plugins are known to work and what you need to do to get them to work.) There are other ways of running windows-based VSTs, but that's the one I'm familiar with.
haywirez 7y ago
Ableton is a different ballgame if you have the Push interface. Other than that Reaper needs a mention, it is the best DAW[1] in terms of functionality and power. Truly for power-users and not necessarily as a musical idea starter. [1] http://reaper.fm/ http://reaper.fm/
- krn 7y ago
  > Ableton is a different ballgame if you have the Push interface. Bitwig, started by former developers of Ableton, supports Ableton Push and many other MIDI controllers[1], and is probably the most advanced DAW for electronic music production currently available. It's not as popular as Ableton, because it's much newer and most people rarely switch DAWs they are used to. > Other than that Reaper needs a mention, it is the best DAW[1] in terms of functionality and power. That's true, Reaper might be the best DAW for any non-electronic music oriented workflows. But this separation is essential: they were designed with different primary use cases in mind. I wish Reaper supported Linux natively (without Wine). [1] http://www.mossgrabers.de/Software/Bitwig/Bitwig.html http://www.mossgrabers.de/Software/Bitwig/Bitwig.html
  - stealthascope 7y ago
    Just wanted to throw in a comment here: Reaper actually does have native Linux builds [1],even if they are marked as experimental. [1] https://www.reaper.fm/download.php#linux_download https://www.reaper.fm/download.php#linux_download
  - space-dandy 7y ago
    I'm an owner of Bitwig and a huge fan; that being said I think it's more fair to say that Bitwig supports Ableton Push with a few asterisks. It is supported as far as the Bitwig scripting API can support it. The experience is not the same as using Push natively with Ableton.
    - brokenmachine 7y ago
      What are the differences? Does the screen work? I have a Push 2 with Ableton.
uxcolumbo 7y ago
Can you give more details about why you switched to Bitwig? I'm a beginner, so don't know much about Ableton or Bitwig.
- alkonaut 7y ago
  I just purchased Bitwig after evaluating all the big ones, and the decision fell on Bitwig because it just felt like a "better" Ableton. I think the Bitwig team is actually former Ableton developers that just felt they could make a better DAW if they started from scratch. They could. It's just hundreds of little paper cuts in the other big ones, that are fixed in Bitwig. If something is clunky and unintuitive in Ableton, it's most likely better in Bitwig. And there aren't just a few things that are clunky and unintuitive in Ableton.
  - codesternews 7y ago
    Are you programmer and hobist or you make professional producer?
    - alkonaut 7y ago
      Programmer/hobbyist. I dabble with writing VST's so mostly wanted to explore that, but also wanted to get into writing tunes. I also do some amateur guitar/vocal stuff so it's nice to have a recording software (Although for that task there are obviously good free alternatives). When Bitwig was on sale, I got it (and as a nice surprise found that my Bitwig 2 license also included Bitwig 3 now)
  - justforyou 7y ago
    The unfortunate counterpoint is there are an equal number of things that are clunky and unintuitive in Bitwig. It's also not nearly as friendly and intuitive when being used as a live looper. How many bitwig users here use it in a live performance context?
    - alkonaut 7y ago
kofejnik 7y ago
I was totally floored seeing deadmau5' masterclass, he composes in Ableton on Windows, using mouse and keyboard shortcuts, no controllers!
jonathanstrange 7y ago
I use Reaper for everything.
0x70dd 7y ago
Recently I switched to Ardour for recording guitars on Linux - it has great VST support, allows syncing music with videos, and has automation built-in. Even Amplitube works through LinVst. I was also blown away by their pricing - you can pay as little as $1 for the full version, which is what I did, but after seeing how well it works, I did a donation to match the recommended price of $45.
- lultimouomo 7y ago
  As far as I remember Ardour is GPL software, and on their website[0] I cannot find neither some kind of licensing price or any donation link. Is there some other commercial version of Ardour? [0] https://ardour.org/ https://ardour.org/
  - cousin_it 7y ago
    They do say they're GPL, and let you download the source, but they also say that 1) building from source is hard 2) they won't keep build instructions up to date 3) they won't answer questions about the build process. https://ardour.org/building_linux.html https://ardour.org/building_linux.html With that attitude I'm not sure why not just buy commercial.
    - ksangeelee 7y ago
      In a way, you are buying commercial. The Ardour people are selling downloads of their binary builds for $1 per download (or more, if you choose), along with some access to support I think. It's also possible to, for example, 'apt-get install ardour' and get a similar version in Debian Buster. I presume there are lots of other operating systems that this is built for, so Ardour does make a significant contribution to free software.
    - lultimouomo 7y ago
      Wow! You need to browse through 4 pages trying to download the program before they ask you for money! I think pay-for-binaries can be a legit monetization strategy for open source, but this is really sneaky.
baldfat 7y ago
I also use Bitwig (And Tracktion's Waveform 10) They both work on Linux and are great. Bitwig works on a subscription program for updates. You want the latest you buy a subscription and it lasts for a year. After the subscription is over you get to use whatever version you are on for life, but no updates.
codesternews 7y ago
To all guys commenting here - Are you guys hobist, programmers or professional. Why you use these tools? Just asking out of curiosity. Thanks
- space-dandy 7y ago
  These tools are the industry standard for creating and recording music digitally. They are suitable for hobbyists to professional level. I personally am a hobbyist musician and programmer by profession. I'd imagine many others here are like me as well.
- cruano 7y ago
  My question is more on why would you switch a $300+ tool if they all can do the same ? (not in the same way, but you get the point)
Shinchy 7y ago
I've been through them all, started on Audition, then to Cubase, then to Pro Tools and finally settled on Ableton. There's just nothing like Ableton for composing, especially with the right hardware (controller or push). It allows you to get completely lost in a way no other DAW I've used can match. Although I do now use Pro Tools for mixing since I find it to be far superior in that area.
kabacha 7y ago
379€ - wow, that's an absurd amount of money for personal software. Include that with every tutorial being priced too and having to buy synths and samples etc this turns into one expensive hobbie.
- jamesb93 7y ago
  Its expensive because its good and the amount of engineering to make sure this doesn't drop a single sample in live performance costs time, expertise and cash.
- delta1 7y ago
  Ableton Live Standard: $449 Cubase Artist: ~ $340 Reaper: Free/$60/$225 Pro tools: ~ $600 It's priced in the same league as its competitors.
  - kbouck 7y ago
    > Ableton Live Standard: $449 Arturia midi controllers (eg Minilab mkII: ~$100) come bundled with a license for Ableton Live Lite which is pretty functional and might satisfy hobbyist needs.
- jlarcombe 7y ago
  Well, it's professional software. If you could still buy a permanent licence for Photoshop, say, it would probably be similar.
  - joeberon 7y ago
    It would be much more
- IGotThroughIt 7y ago
  VST Library: NI Komplete 12 Full - $1600
- chachachoney 7y ago
  There are some amazing free VSTs out there. Also, 379€ is about the price you'd pay for a mid-level guitar. So if you're considering Ableton or Bitwig Studio your "instrument" it's reasonable. (obviously, this analogy breaks under pressure; software still lacks the concrete permanence of a physical instrument)
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
alok-g 7y ago
I have heard good reviews about Bitwig elsewhere too. A few questions, as a newbie to DAWs: 1. What would one miss if using Bitwig over others, if anything? 2. Same question as the above for Reaper? 3. How would the two compare with each other. Note: I have already noted the comments child to yours. Thanks.

kristiandupont 7y ago

Bitwig looks really promising. But how is the VST landscape? Is it even supported? EDIT: sorry, my question was about whether Linux supports VST. I would assume that Bitwig did at v0.1 :-)

jcelerier 7y ago
yes, both vst 2 and vst 3 ; and unlike ableton, bitwig integrates a 32 bit vst bridge and allows to run VSTs in external processes if some are crashy
atoav 7y ago
Longtime Bitwig user here that switched there after Ableton 9 which I used since the very start. Bitwig is quite similar to Ableton in terms of capabilities, I never tried this myself, but there seems to be a way (assuming you want Windows VSTs on Linux) https://answers.bitwig.com/questions/624/vst-windows-on-linux-with-bitwig https://answers.bitwig.com/questions/624/vst-windows-on-linu... I am perfectly happy with the built-in stuff however. Because of bitwigs extremely strong modulation engine the standard effects are probably the most powerful and expressive ones out there.
w56rjrtyu6ru 7y ago
I don't remember how well it integrated with Bitwig - but a few years ago VST support on Linux using Wine, Jack and Carla (https://github.com/falkTX/Carla https://github.com/falkTX/Carla) was pretty solid.
OskarS 7y ago
As a person developing VSTs, BitWig is supports them THE BEST. BitWig handles VSTs better than almost any other host, including (optional, but you should do it!) sandboxing and proper HiDPI support. You can absolutely make VSTs for Linux, but I imagine that very few people do.
fhennig 7y ago
I got bitwig because I am a heavy linux user and wanted to start making music. The software itself works well, it's really great, but with VSTs it's quite tricky. I got a couple to work that explicitly support linux, but for example Serum I couldn't get to work properly. Recently I decided that it's not work all the hassle, and setup a windows computer again. I want as little friction as possible, because the process of making electronic music is already hard enough by itself.
dri_ft 7y ago
As others have mentioned, linux does support VST plugins, as do a number of linux DAWs. But it's worth mentioning that the ecosystem is rather thin at the moment in terms of native VSTs. One solution is to install Windows-based VSTs in a Wine installation and then use linvst, a wrapper which presents those Windows-based VST dlls to a linux host and runs them with Wine. I found it a pain to set up in the first place, and it's hit-and-miss which plugins work in it, but once up and running it actually works smoothly enough, in my experience. (Larger, more complicated VSTs seem correspondingly less likely to work. Of ones that don't immediately work, some can be massaged into working with some tweaking of your wine setup. There's a webpage somewhere with a list of what plugins are known to work and what you need to do to get them to work.) There are other ways of running windows-based VSTs, but that's the one I'm familiar with.

haywirez 7y ago

Ableton is a different ballgame if you have the Push interface. Other than that Reaper needs a mention, it is the best DAW[1] in terms of functionality and power. Truly for power-users and not necessarily as a musical idea starter. [1] http://reaper.fm/ http://reaper.fm/

krn 7y ago
> Ableton is a different ballgame if you have the Push interface. Bitwig, started by former developers of Ableton, supports Ableton Push and many other MIDI controllers[1], and is probably the most advanced DAW for electronic music production currently available. It's not as popular as Ableton, because it's much newer and most people rarely switch DAWs they are used to. > Other than that Reaper needs a mention, it is the best DAW[1] in terms of functionality and power. That's true, Reaper might be the best DAW for any non-electronic music oriented workflows. But this separation is essential: they were designed with different primary use cases in mind. I wish Reaper supported Linux natively (without Wine). [1] http://www.mossgrabers.de/Software/Bitwig/Bitwig.html http://www.mossgrabers.de/Software/Bitwig/Bitwig.html
- stealthascope 7y ago
  Just wanted to throw in a comment here: Reaper actually does have native Linux builds [1],even if they are marked as experimental. [1] https://www.reaper.fm/download.php#linux_download https://www.reaper.fm/download.php#linux_download
- space-dandy 7y ago
  I'm an owner of Bitwig and a huge fan; that being said I think it's more fair to say that Bitwig supports Ableton Push with a few asterisks. It is supported as far as the Bitwig scripting API can support it. The experience is not the same as using Push natively with Ableton.
  - brokenmachine 7y ago
    What are the differences? Does the screen work? I have a Push 2 with Ableton.

uxcolumbo 7y ago

Can you give more details about why you switched to Bitwig? I'm a beginner, so don't know much about Ableton or Bitwig.

alkonaut 7y ago
I just purchased Bitwig after evaluating all the big ones, and the decision fell on Bitwig because it just felt like a "better" Ableton. I think the Bitwig team is actually former Ableton developers that just felt they could make a better DAW if they started from scratch. They could. It's just hundreds of little paper cuts in the other big ones, that are fixed in Bitwig. If something is clunky and unintuitive in Ableton, it's most likely better in Bitwig. And there aren't just a few things that are clunky and unintuitive in Ableton.
- codesternews 7y ago
  Are you programmer and hobist or you make professional producer?
  - alkonaut 7y ago
    Programmer/hobbyist. I dabble with writing VST's so mostly wanted to explore that, but also wanted to get into writing tunes. I also do some amateur guitar/vocal stuff so it's nice to have a recording software (Although for that task there are obviously good free alternatives). When Bitwig was on sale, I got it (and as a nice surprise found that my Bitwig 2 license also included Bitwig 3 now)
- justforyou 7y ago
  The unfortunate counterpoint is there are an equal number of things that are clunky and unintuitive in Bitwig. It's also not nearly as friendly and intuitive when being used as a live looper. How many bitwig users here use it in a live performance context?
  - alkonaut 7y ago

kofejnik 7y ago

I was totally floored seeing deadmau5' masterclass, he composes in Ableton on Windows, using mouse and keyboard shortcuts, no controllers!

jonathanstrange 7y ago

I use Reaper for everything.

0x70dd 7y ago

Recently I switched to Ardour for recording guitars on Linux - it has great VST support, allows syncing music with videos, and has automation built-in. Even Amplitube works through LinVst. I was also blown away by their pricing - you can pay as little as $1 for the full version, which is what I did, but after seeing how well it works, I did a donation to match the recommended price of $45.

lultimouomo 7y ago
As far as I remember Ardour is GPL software, and on their website[0] I cannot find neither some kind of licensing price or any donation link. Is there some other commercial version of Ardour? [0] https://ardour.org/ https://ardour.org/
- cousin_it 7y ago
  They do say they're GPL, and let you download the source, but they also say that 1) building from source is hard 2) they won't keep build instructions up to date 3) they won't answer questions about the build process. https://ardour.org/building_linux.html https://ardour.org/building_linux.html With that attitude I'm not sure why not just buy commercial.
  - ksangeelee 7y ago
    In a way, you are buying commercial. The Ardour people are selling downloads of their binary builds for $1 per download (or more, if you choose), along with some access to support I think. It's also possible to, for example, 'apt-get install ardour' and get a similar version in Debian Buster. I presume there are lots of other operating systems that this is built for, so Ardour does make a significant contribution to free software.
  - lultimouomo 7y ago
    Wow! You need to browse through 4 pages trying to download the program before they ask you for money! I think pay-for-binaries can be a legit monetization strategy for open source, but this is really sneaky.

baldfat 7y ago

I also use Bitwig (And Tracktion's Waveform 10) They both work on Linux and are great. Bitwig works on a subscription program for updates. You want the latest you buy a subscription and it lasts for a year. After the subscription is over you get to use whatever version you are on for life, but no updates.

codesternews 7y ago

To all guys commenting here - Are you guys hobist, programmers or professional. Why you use these tools? Just asking out of curiosity. Thanks

space-dandy 7y ago
These tools are the industry standard for creating and recording music digitally. They are suitable for hobbyists to professional level. I personally am a hobbyist musician and programmer by profession. I'd imagine many others here are like me as well.
cruano 7y ago
My question is more on why would you switch a $300+ tool if they all can do the same ? (not in the same way, but you get the point)

Shinchy 7y ago

I've been through them all, started on Audition, then to Cubase, then to Pro Tools and finally settled on Ableton. There's just nothing like Ableton for composing, especially with the right hardware (controller or push). It allows you to get completely lost in a way no other DAW I've used can match. Although I do now use Pro Tools for mixing since I find it to be far superior in that area.

kabacha 7y ago

379€ - wow, that's an absurd amount of money for personal software. Include that with every tutorial being priced too and having to buy synths and samples etc this turns into one expensive hobbie.

jamesb93 7y ago
Its expensive because its good and the amount of engineering to make sure this doesn't drop a single sample in live performance costs time, expertise and cash.
delta1 7y ago
Ableton Live Standard: $449 Cubase Artist: ~ $340 Reaper: Free/$60/$225 Pro tools: ~ $600 It's priced in the same league as its competitors.
- kbouck 7y ago
  > Ableton Live Standard: $449 Arturia midi controllers (eg Minilab mkII: ~$100) come bundled with a license for Ableton Live Lite which is pretty functional and might satisfy hobbyist needs.
jlarcombe 7y ago
Well, it's professional software. If you could still buy a permanent licence for Photoshop, say, it would probably be similar.
- joeberon 7y ago
  It would be much more
IGotThroughIt 7y ago
VST Library: NI Komplete 12 Full - $1600
chachachoney 7y ago
There are some amazing free VSTs out there. Also, 379€ is about the price you'd pay for a mid-level guitar. So if you're considering Ableton or Bitwig Studio your "instrument" it's reasonable. (obviously, this analogy breaks under pressure; software still lacks the concrete permanence of a physical instrument)

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

alok-g 7y ago

I have heard good reviews about Bitwig elsewhere too. A few questions, as a newbie to DAWs: 1. What would one miss if using Bitwig over others, if anything? 2. Same question as the above for Reaper? 3. How would the two compare with each other. Note: I have already noted the comments child to yours. Thanks.