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I find it hard to take news outlets seriously on this subject when they keep the kid gloves on concerning the current president of Brazil. The reticence to call

I find it hard to take news outlets seriously on this subject when they keep the kid gloves on concerning the current president of Brazil. The reticence to call his "victory" what it really was: a coup. The intercept [0] laid out the fact that his opponent, who was slated to win in a landslide, was jailed and convicted by a judge who was working in concert with the prosecutor to ensure a conviction. If the aim was to do real journalism and speak truth to power, then outlets would call if like it is and convey zero legitimacy to the current administration. [0]: https://theintercept.com/series/secret-brazil-archive/ https://theintercept.com/series/secret-brazil-archive/

moroisahero 7y ago
I, as a brazilian, find it hard to take your comment seriously. First of all, judge Moro is a national hero, and recent polls still show him as the most admired public figure in the country. Leading operation Car Wash, he was responsible to (finally!) jail many of the most powerful politics and businessman in Brasil, due to disgusting corruption and shameless kickback schemes. All his convictions were backed by mountains and mountains of evidence, and upheld in at least 3 different upper courts, including our Supreme Court. There were more than 100 convictions from politics from the entire political spectrum by Judge Moro, from right to left. Operation Car Wash has already recovered more than 8 Billion in assets stolen from public companies. "His opponent" that you mentioned is President Lula, today recognized as the leader of a criminal organization that stole literally billions from Brazil. He currently serves a sentence from receiving a penthouse as bribe (there are even pictures of him inside the apartment, and the owner of the building company that built it testified about the whole scheme). Trust me, jailing him was not easy, giving the enormous support he had due to him (or his political party) being in power from 2003-2016 (btw, during this time they also managed to destroy our economy - we'll end this decade as the worst in economical terms of the last 120 years). The are other 8 criminal lawsuits against former president Lula, and he has already been convicted (by a different Judge) in another one about "the ranch in Atibaia", which he also denied being his, even tough prosecution proved it was actually received by him as bribe: the place had paddle boats with the names of his grandsons, the master bedroom had all his wife's medicines on the counter top and even dinner tables had their names engraved, there were even regular e-mails from the manager of the ranch to the president updating him with the most detailed events... there's a 20 page PDF by our FBI with pictures of all the evidence. About the alleged collusion between Judge Moro and the prosecution, you just need to read the Intercept messages by yourself to see that absolutely nothing wrong happened there. It's normal for the Judge to talk with the prosecution in a criminal case, as he needs to collect opinions before his rulings. What happened in Brazil is that a "crazy judge" and some "crazy prosecutors" decided to change the "status quo" and finally put an end to the shameless multi-billion stealing that was going on for the last decade, lead by former president Lula and his political associates. If you think these Judges and Prosecutors would achieve those results without a lot of backing from the public opinion, you must only be naive. Some of those messages show exactly that: Judge and Prosecutor talking about how shadowy manouvers to discredit the operation needed to be brought to light so the public could protest and react and prevent them. Extra credit to them for doing that and going the extra mile, all within the law. After President Bolsonaro was elected, he invited Judge Moro to talk, and he accepted to leave the Judiciary Branch to serve as Minister of Justice, and he'll probably be appointed to be a Supreme Court Justice when the next position opens (Bolsonaro will be able to appoint 2 seats during his term, during to retirements). Props to Bolsonaro for doing that. After all these messages came out between Moro and Prosecution were published (all criminally obtained by a Hacker, I must point out), Judge Moro put it best: "parturiunt montes, nascetur ridiculus mus".
29athrowaway 7y ago
It was not a coup. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Car_Wash https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Car_Wash
- gchamonlive 7y ago
  Judge colludes with prossecution Judge sends political adversary to prison Judge now minister in current administration, arguably in power due to his imprisoning the aforementioned political adversary
  - hu3 7y ago
    That Judge was operating at the lowest tier of the Judiciary when he sentenced Lula. The sentence was appealed many times all the way up to the Supreme Court and along the way, other Judges not only agreed that Lula is a criminal but also increased his initial sentence.
    - gchamonlive 7y ago
      Questioning the sentence and the judges and prossecution involved is totally NOT the same as defending the prossecuted. I don't get how many people jump to this conclusion. It is virtually impossible to defend Lula. There is enough proof out there to back this. No. What I am questioning the the timeline of events, that fit too conveniently for the current president and the judge, that is now a minister. I hope this clarifies your confusion.
      - hu3 7y ago
        Or perhaps the president appointed the judge as Minister of Justice in recognition for putting in jail many of the most powerful politics and businessman in Brazil. Makes perfect sense, that judge is a national hero.
        gchamonlive 7y ago
        Sure, whatever lie makes you sleep better at night. I am not taking that from you. However, if we were to be honest, that would be something pretty naive to trust, given first the current president political history and second his current actions, portraiting a figure that has not only no interest in the well being of the country, being that in international politics or in internal affairs, but also no interest in continuing the aforementioned investigations. A quick look in the current unfolding events from the past months can show that.

moroisahero 7y ago

I, as a brazilian, find it hard to take your comment seriously. First of all, judge Moro is a national hero, and recent polls still show him as the most admired public figure in the country. Leading operation Car Wash, he was responsible to (finally!) jail many of the most powerful politics and businessman in Brasil, due to disgusting corruption and shameless kickback schemes. All his convictions were backed by mountains and mountains of evidence, and upheld in at least 3 different upper courts, including our Supreme Court. There were more than 100 convictions from politics from the entire political spectrum by Judge Moro, from right to left. Operation Car Wash has already recovered more than 8 Billion in assets stolen from public companies. "His opponent" that you mentioned is President Lula, today recognized as the leader of a criminal organization that stole literally billions from Brazil. He currently serves a sentence from receiving a penthouse as bribe (there are even pictures of him inside the apartment, and the owner of the building company that built it testified about the whole scheme). Trust me, jailing him was not easy, giving the enormous support he had due to him (or his political party) being in power from 2003-2016 (btw, during this time they also managed to destroy our economy - we'll end this decade as the worst in economical terms of the last 120 years). The are other 8 criminal lawsuits against former president Lula, and he has already been convicted (by a different Judge) in another one about "the ranch in Atibaia", which he also denied being his, even tough prosecution proved it was actually received by him as bribe: the place had paddle boats with the names of his grandsons, the master bedroom had all his wife's medicines on the counter top and even dinner tables had their names engraved, there were even regular e-mails from the manager of the ranch to the president updating him with the most detailed events... there's a 20 page PDF by our FBI with pictures of all the evidence. About the alleged collusion between Judge Moro and the prosecution, you just need to read the Intercept messages by yourself to see that absolutely nothing wrong happened there. It's normal for the Judge to talk with the prosecution in a criminal case, as he needs to collect opinions before his rulings. What happened in Brazil is that a "crazy judge" and some "crazy prosecutors" decided to change the "status quo" and finally put an end to the shameless multi-billion stealing that was going on for the last decade, lead by former president Lula and his political associates. If you think these Judges and Prosecutors would achieve those results without a lot of backing from the public opinion, you must only be naive. Some of those messages show exactly that: Judge and Prosecutor talking about how shadowy manouvers to discredit the operation needed to be brought to light so the public could protest and react and prevent them. Extra credit to them for doing that and going the extra mile, all within the law. After President Bolsonaro was elected, he invited Judge Moro to talk, and he accepted to leave the Judiciary Branch to serve as Minister of Justice, and he'll probably be appointed to be a Supreme Court Justice when the next position opens (Bolsonaro will be able to appoint 2 seats during his term, during to retirements). Props to Bolsonaro for doing that. After all these messages came out between Moro and Prosecution were published (all criminally obtained by a Hacker, I must point out), Judge Moro put it best: "parturiunt montes, nascetur ridiculus mus".

29athrowaway 7y ago

It was not a coup. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Car_Wash https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Car_Wash

gchamonlive 7y ago
Judge colludes with prossecution Judge sends political adversary to prison Judge now minister in current administration, arguably in power due to his imprisoning the aforementioned political adversary
- hu3 7y ago
  That Judge was operating at the lowest tier of the Judiciary when he sentenced Lula. The sentence was appealed many times all the way up to the Supreme Court and along the way, other Judges not only agreed that Lula is a criminal but also increased his initial sentence.
  - gchamonlive 7y ago
    Questioning the sentence and the judges and prossecution involved is totally NOT the same as defending the prossecuted. I don't get how many people jump to this conclusion. It is virtually impossible to defend Lula. There is enough proof out there to back this. No. What I am questioning the the timeline of events, that fit too conveniently for the current president and the judge, that is now a minister. I hope this clarifies your confusion.
    - hu3 7y ago
      Or perhaps the president appointed the judge as Minister of Justice in recognition for putting in jail many of the most powerful politics and businessman in Brazil. Makes perfect sense, that judge is a national hero.
      - gchamonlive 7y ago
        Sure, whatever lie makes you sleep better at night. I am not taking that from you. However, if we were to be honest, that would be something pretty naive to trust, given first the current president political history and second his current actions, portraiting a figure that has not only no interest in the well being of the country, being that in international politics or in internal affairs, but also no interest in continuing the aforementioned investigations. A quick look in the current unfolding events from the past months can show that.