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Wow I started to implement essentially the same thing for small businesses, I did not know about Sandstorm. Does this means this is a bad idea?

dev_dull 7y ago
Did you take VC?
- kissgyorgy 7y ago
  No.
mynegation 7y ago
This is subject to the specifics and execution. The likes of BitNami, NextCloud, Cloudron, Yunohost continue to operate, acquired or standalone.
teleclimber 7y ago
I asked Kenton V about the reasons for the failure of the business. You might be interested in his reply[0]. My 0.02: I'd interview your target market to find out if this is a pain point they recognize. Many of these projects are started out of decentralization idealism (for good reason, and it's not a bad thing), but as a business you do not want to be left having to educate your potential buyers about why they need this. [0] https://twitter.com/teleclimber/status/1173345736013910017 https://twitter.com/teleclimber/status/1173345736013910017
- anderspitman 7y ago
  Agreed. You shouldn't have to explain someone's problem to them. Ideally when you present a good solution they will immediately match it to a pain point they're already experiencing.
  - kentonv 7y ago
    To be fair, we didn't try to go around selling businesses on "decentralization idealism"; that would obviously be silly. Plenty of enterprises already need to self-host services, for compliance reasons (ITAR, FISMA, HIPAA, FINRA, GDPR, national data locality laws in Germany, Russia, China, South Korea, and others), or sometimes even just paranoia. The need is very much there. But, like, we literally didn't know where to start. Pick up a phone and just, like, call people? Apparently that's how sales works but I'm sure as hell not the person to do it. I hate it when people call me! How could I call someone? So we didn't call anyone, and mostly hoped that fans on Hacker News would go sell Sandstorm to their IT departments for us. That was dumb and didn't work.
    - kentonv 7y ago
      (This is a bit of an exaggeration but you get the idea.)
    - teleclimber 7y ago
      > To be fair, we didn't try to go around selling businesses on "decentralization idealism"; that would obviously be silly. Sorry, my comment should have been more clear. I wasn't referring to Sandstorm or you in my comment and I didn't mean to accuse of you of such silliness. It was more a reaction to the poster above who said they were targeting "small business" without specifying which kind of small business and what they are solving for them. Anyways, yes, there are many reasons for businesses (even small ones) to self-host. Other reasons include the ability to customize (you can't customize a saas, unless you're a gigantic customer), and longevity (Saas come and go, and switching costs can be high).
      - anderspitman 7y ago
        Yeah I definitely wasn't referring to sandstorm either.
    - garganzol 7y ago
      Businesses may not specifically want "decentralization idealism", that's true. What they want is "Windows for Web". Something where you could install an app and bingo, it instantly worked on all endpoints around the globe. Or where you once install "yet another CDN provider" component (app), and it instantly and automatically covers all the installed apps. Kubernetes came close to this, but it requires significant amount of expertise, and honestly it is a matter of time until it gets smashed with something better. In short, what we (businesses) want is "Click and serve". Sandstorm was so close and yet did not make the expected steps in that direction. This makes me sad, but this is life.

dev_dull 7y ago

Did you take VC?

kissgyorgy 7y ago
No.

mynegation 7y ago

This is subject to the specifics and execution. The likes of BitNami, NextCloud, Cloudron, Yunohost continue to operate, acquired or standalone.

teleclimber 7y ago

I asked Kenton V about the reasons for the failure of the business. You might be interested in his reply[0]. My 0.02: I'd interview your target market to find out if this is a pain point they recognize. Many of these projects are started out of decentralization idealism (for good reason, and it's not a bad thing), but as a business you do not want to be left having to educate your potential buyers about why they need this. [0] https://twitter.com/teleclimber/status/1173345736013910017 https://twitter.com/teleclimber/status/1173345736013910017

anderspitman 7y ago
Agreed. You shouldn't have to explain someone's problem to them. Ideally when you present a good solution they will immediately match it to a pain point they're already experiencing.
- kentonv 7y ago
  To be fair, we didn't try to go around selling businesses on "decentralization idealism"; that would obviously be silly. Plenty of enterprises already need to self-host services, for compliance reasons (ITAR, FISMA, HIPAA, FINRA, GDPR, national data locality laws in Germany, Russia, China, South Korea, and others), or sometimes even just paranoia. The need is very much there. But, like, we literally didn't know where to start. Pick up a phone and just, like, call people? Apparently that's how sales works but I'm sure as hell not the person to do it. I hate it when people call me! How could I call someone? So we didn't call anyone, and mostly hoped that fans on Hacker News would go sell Sandstorm to their IT departments for us. That was dumb and didn't work.
  - kentonv 7y ago
    (This is a bit of an exaggeration but you get the idea.)
  - teleclimber 7y ago
    > To be fair, we didn't try to go around selling businesses on "decentralization idealism"; that would obviously be silly. Sorry, my comment should have been more clear. I wasn't referring to Sandstorm or you in my comment and I didn't mean to accuse of you of such silliness. It was more a reaction to the poster above who said they were targeting "small business" without specifying which kind of small business and what they are solving for them. Anyways, yes, there are many reasons for businesses (even small ones) to self-host. Other reasons include the ability to customize (you can't customize a saas, unless you're a gigantic customer), and longevity (Saas come and go, and switching costs can be high).
    - anderspitman 7y ago
      Yeah I definitely wasn't referring to sandstorm either.
  - garganzol 7y ago
    Businesses may not specifically want "decentralization idealism", that's true. What they want is "Windows for Web". Something where you could install an app and bingo, it instantly worked on all endpoints around the globe. Or where you once install "yet another CDN provider" component (app), and it instantly and automatically covers all the installed apps. Kubernetes came close to this, but it requires significant amount of expertise, and honestly it is a matter of time until it gets smashed with something better. In short, what we (businesses) want is "Click and serve". Sandstorm was so close and yet did not make the expected steps in that direction. This makes me sad, but this is life.