5 ms·

https://aliexpress.com/item/32933638584.html https://aliexpress.com/item/32933638584.html (from https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/d3y87q/is_pine64_scam/

by dchest 7y ago

https://aliexpress.com/item/32933638584.html https://aliexpress.com/item/32933638584.html (from https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/d3y87q/is_pine64_scam/ https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/d3y87q/is_pine64_sca...)

megous 7y ago
Is there a way to build/upload custom FW to this?
- dchest 7y ago
  No idea! They say it's the same body, but different internals https://twitter.com/thepine64/status/1172842631107358722 https://twitter.com/thepine64/status/1172842631107358722 Edit: according to Pine64, they will use NRF52832 https://twitter.com/thepine64/status/1173208712669999105 https://twitter.com/thepine64/status/1173208712669999105 which is the exact SoC the linked watch use.
52-6F-62 7y ago
That led me right down the rabbit hole. Who makes all this stuff? I’m a little amazed, and a little perturbed... https://m.aliexpress.com/store/v3/home.html?shopId=1523303&sellerId=117746667&spm=a2g0n.detail-amp.store-link&pagePath=index.htm https://m.aliexpress.com/store/v3/home.html?shopId=1523303&s...
petra 7y ago
Why doesn't this come with a reasonable open sdk ? Why none of the Chinese smartwatch companies offer that ? Seem like a big opportunity. What's different in the Chinese business culture - that nobody tries this opportunity ?
- freehunter 7y ago
  At the risk of sounding Nationalist or Jingoist... it seems that innovation isn't something that comes easily to many Chinese companies. Innovation is done by American/Western companies, and many Chinese companies piggyback off of Western innovations. Since many Western companies produce their products in China, it's easy for that factory to just keep the production lines running. When Apple asks for 1,000 products to be made, the Chinese factories can make the 1,000 products for Apple and then 5,000 products for sale on Alibaba at basically no additional cost. When you're selling hardware at-cost and copying OSS software to run on it, it's not really profitable to add additional software maintenance costs like producing an SDK or offering English-language software support. I'm 100% sure there are Chinese companies who offer software and English-language support, but I am also 100% sure those Chinese companies charge similar prices to Western companies, negating the benefits of Alibaba products. You certainly do have Chinese companies who attempt this: Huawei and Xiaomi come to mind. But their products sell at prices very comparable to Western companies. For the true "Chinese prices" companies who only sell on Alibaba etc... if they're offering Western support and Western innovation, there's no way they're selling at Chinese prices.
  - monocasa 7y ago
    There's tons of innovation occurring in the Chinese hardware market. For consumer devices, I'd say there's much more innovation happening in Shenzhen than in San Fran. The issue is that they have their own ecosystem for software that doesn't really play nice with western IP, so you sort of get stone walled if you come in talking English. https://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=4297 https://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=4297
    - freehunter 7y ago
      From skimming your article... is it really innovation if the research and development is stolen from Western countries? >very small teams of engineers can obtain complete design packages for working phones They can obtain complete design packages for working phones because those design packages were stolen according to Western laws and customs. >we also feel that shying away from reverse engineering simply because it’s controversial is a slippery slope It might be controversial in China, but it's illegal in many Western countries. >Unfortunately, queries into getting a Western-licensed EDK for the chips used in the Chinese phones were met with a cold shoulder So instead they decided that stealing the work of Western companies would not and could not be punished in China, so they just stole it. "Doesn't play nice with Western IP" sounds an awful lot like theft with a fancier name.
      - monocasa 7y ago
        For context, the blog post is written by an American born MIT graduate who tries to embody the classic MIT hacker ethos. His is a remarkably western perspective in it's axioms.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]

by dchest 7y ago

megous 7y ago

Is there a way to build/upload custom FW to this?

dchest 7y ago
No idea! They say it's the same body, but different internals https://twitter.com/thepine64/status/1172842631107358722 https://twitter.com/thepine64/status/1172842631107358722 Edit: according to Pine64, they will use NRF52832 https://twitter.com/thepine64/status/1173208712669999105 https://twitter.com/thepine64/status/1173208712669999105 which is the exact SoC the linked watch use.

52-6F-62 7y ago

That led me right down the rabbit hole. Who makes all this stuff? I’m a little amazed, and a little perturbed... https://m.aliexpress.com/store/v3/home.html?shopId=1523303&sellerId=117746667&spm=a2g0n.detail-amp.store-link&pagePath=index.htm https://m.aliexpress.com/store/v3/home.html?shopId=1523303&s...

petra 7y ago

Why doesn't this come with a reasonable open sdk ? Why none of the Chinese smartwatch companies offer that ? Seem like a big opportunity. What's different in the Chinese business culture - that nobody tries this opportunity ?

freehunter 7y ago
At the risk of sounding Nationalist or Jingoist... it seems that innovation isn't something that comes easily to many Chinese companies. Innovation is done by American/Western companies, and many Chinese companies piggyback off of Western innovations. Since many Western companies produce their products in China, it's easy for that factory to just keep the production lines running. When Apple asks for 1,000 products to be made, the Chinese factories can make the 1,000 products for Apple and then 5,000 products for sale on Alibaba at basically no additional cost. When you're selling hardware at-cost and copying OSS software to run on it, it's not really profitable to add additional software maintenance costs like producing an SDK or offering English-language software support. I'm 100% sure there are Chinese companies who offer software and English-language support, but I am also 100% sure those Chinese companies charge similar prices to Western companies, negating the benefits of Alibaba products. You certainly do have Chinese companies who attempt this: Huawei and Xiaomi come to mind. But their products sell at prices very comparable to Western companies. For the true "Chinese prices" companies who only sell on Alibaba etc... if they're offering Western support and Western innovation, there's no way they're selling at Chinese prices.
- monocasa 7y ago
  There's tons of innovation occurring in the Chinese hardware market. For consumer devices, I'd say there's much more innovation happening in Shenzhen than in San Fran. The issue is that they have their own ecosystem for software that doesn't really play nice with western IP, so you sort of get stone walled if you come in talking English. https://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=4297 https://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=4297
  - freehunter 7y ago
    From skimming your article... is it really innovation if the research and development is stolen from Western countries? >very small teams of engineers can obtain complete design packages for working phones They can obtain complete design packages for working phones because those design packages were stolen according to Western laws and customs. >we also feel that shying away from reverse engineering simply because it’s controversial is a slippery slope It might be controversial in China, but it's illegal in many Western countries. >Unfortunately, queries into getting a Western-licensed EDK for the chips used in the Chinese phones were met with a cold shoulder So instead they decided that stealing the work of Western companies would not and could not be punished in China, so they just stole it. "Doesn't play nice with Western IP" sounds an awful lot like theft with a fancier name.
    - monocasa 7y ago
      For context, the blog post is written by an American born MIT graduate who tries to embody the classic MIT hacker ethos. His is a remarkably western perspective in it's axioms.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]