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>The last men off the drowning ship said that they saw Shin in the wheelhouse, refusing to abandon his post or put on a life jacket. Hugging a pole and clutchin

>The last men off the drowning ship said that they saw Shin in the wheelhouse, refusing to abandon his post or put on a life jacket. Hugging a pole and clutching his clear bottle, he was muttering in Korean and crying. I find this fascinating. You really couldn’t ask for something that would align incentives more in keeping the ship afloat than the captain going down with the ship. And yet, the captain blatantly ignored safety requirements and caused his ship to sink. I have more respect for this captain, who even though he placed his crew members lives at risk, placed himself at more risk and went down with the ship, than a lot of CEOs who do or tacitly encourage doing very shady (or illegal) things and then escape accountability through golden parachutes. Maybe we need more “captains going down with the ship” type of laws in the business sector.

markbnj 7y ago
As a former professional deckhand who has worked on small fishing craft, my take on this would not be that he elected to go down with his ship. If that has ever actually happened outside of myth and fable then it has at least been very rare. My guess is that in his own way the captain was as desperate for the job and as fearful for the consequences of the unfolding event as his crew, and was simply paralyzed by despair. He may also have been impaired by alcohol, dampening reason and enhancing panic. Many, perhaps most, commercial sailors fear the water in a way that people who work ashore can't understand. The image of the recreational sailor who is as at home in the water as on the surface of it does not describe the average worker on a commercial vessel, right up to the officers. They're not out there for fun, and they know that if they are forced overboard far from land, survival suit or no, the chances of death are quite high.
- lolc 7y ago
  Thanks for explaining the captain's situation. We often forget how even people in a position of power are victims themselves.
- GhettoMaestro 7y ago
  That thought has always terrified me: survival mode in/on the water with an inevitable death ahead. It masks me wonder if there is a market for automatic sensing hydro-electronic sensors integrated in sailors / fishermen's clothing. The idea is if the sensor is in contact with some amount of water for 90+ seconds, start a count-down to chirp an emergency radio beacon.If the user doesn't over-ride the count-down, via a button somewhere in clothing, it starts sending a distress beacon, allowing for rescue within hours most likely. The reason for the automatic element is if someone were to be knocked overboard and unconscious. A similar concept can be thought of regarding the firefighters PASS device: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PASS_device https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PASS_device
  - lb1lf 7y ago
    You basically reinvented the PLB (Personal Location Beacon), a GPS-equipped radio transmitter slightly bigger than a pack of cigarettes which will let a satellite network know your precise location minutes after falling in the water. The one I wear when at sea cost $400 or so plus a $50 annual fee.
    - GhettoMaestro 7y ago
      Thank you. So it is a case of people planning poorly. :(
      - lb1lf 7y ago
        Not necessarily; after all, such a beacon will only let the world know that someone, somewhere is in the water; depending on where they fell in, rescue personnel may need days to get to the site if it is sufficiently remote and the weather is bad enough. The main benefit of a PLB is to assist the vessel you fell from in finding you - unless you had the good luck to fall overboard near a heliport in decent weather or in a busy shipping lane, the PLB will (mostly) not be able to get a rescue effort by any other party under way in time.
      - markbnj 7y ago
        > Thank you. So it is a case of people planning poorly. :( Well most of them were picked up by another fishing vessel, probably because of a VHF radio distress call and not a ELB/PLB. Those devices often depend on reception by overflying commercial aircraft, which are bound by international treaty to monitor the frequencies and forward reports to land-based authorities. Others use satellite reception. Such beacons are the method of last resort when far from land and not in the company of other nearby vessels, and it can take quite awhile for responders to get the report and make it out to the area.
lolc 7y ago
Would you also respect a CEO more if he'd commit suicide? Because that's what this captain did.
- jessaustin 7y ago
  Yes. Suicide is a meaningful way to atone for wrongdoing. Sometimes it's the only option one could respect.
  - jacobwilliamroy 7y ago
    Haha! Jokes on you man. Suicide just means we have one less hand to help wash the shitted bedsheets. Live people are much more likely to help you get what you want.
    - jessaustin 7y ago
      The number of hands available is rarely the problem with the bedsheets. "I screwed it up therefore I'm more qualified to tell the peons how to fix it!" is a particularly impoverished variant of argument from authority. The bedsheet-shitter is welcome to give his life whatever meaning he can through whatever means don't involve his continued access to our bedsheets.
tgsovlerkhgsel 7y ago
I think going down with the ship may have less to do with honor in this case, but with the realization that he made such a serious mistake that his career (and likely freedom) was over and suicide became an attractive option. He killed five of his men, and sank the ship because he wanted to save then net and catch. I suspect whichever authorities had jurisdiction over him would frown upon that.

markbnj 7y ago

As a former professional deckhand who has worked on small fishing craft, my take on this would not be that he elected to go down with his ship. If that has ever actually happened outside of myth and fable then it has at least been very rare. My guess is that in his own way the captain was as desperate for the job and as fearful for the consequences of the unfolding event as his crew, and was simply paralyzed by despair. He may also have been impaired by alcohol, dampening reason and enhancing panic. Many, perhaps most, commercial sailors fear the water in a way that people who work ashore can't understand. The image of the recreational sailor who is as at home in the water as on the surface of it does not describe the average worker on a commercial vessel, right up to the officers. They're not out there for fun, and they know that if they are forced overboard far from land, survival suit or no, the chances of death are quite high.

lolc 7y ago
Thanks for explaining the captain's situation. We often forget how even people in a position of power are victims themselves.
GhettoMaestro 7y ago
That thought has always terrified me: survival mode in/on the water with an inevitable death ahead. It masks me wonder if there is a market for automatic sensing hydro-electronic sensors integrated in sailors / fishermen's clothing. The idea is if the sensor is in contact with some amount of water for 90+ seconds, start a count-down to chirp an emergency radio beacon.If the user doesn't over-ride the count-down, via a button somewhere in clothing, it starts sending a distress beacon, allowing for rescue within hours most likely. The reason for the automatic element is if someone were to be knocked overboard and unconscious. A similar concept can be thought of regarding the firefighters PASS device: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PASS_device https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PASS_device
- lb1lf 7y ago
  You basically reinvented the PLB (Personal Location Beacon), a GPS-equipped radio transmitter slightly bigger than a pack of cigarettes which will let a satellite network know your precise location minutes after falling in the water. The one I wear when at sea cost $400 or so plus a $50 annual fee.
  - GhettoMaestro 7y ago
    Thank you. So it is a case of people planning poorly. :(
    - lb1lf 7y ago
      Not necessarily; after all, such a beacon will only let the world know that someone, somewhere is in the water; depending on where they fell in, rescue personnel may need days to get to the site if it is sufficiently remote and the weather is bad enough. The main benefit of a PLB is to assist the vessel you fell from in finding you - unless you had the good luck to fall overboard near a heliport in decent weather or in a busy shipping lane, the PLB will (mostly) not be able to get a rescue effort by any other party under way in time.
    - markbnj 7y ago
      > Thank you. So it is a case of people planning poorly. :( Well most of them were picked up by another fishing vessel, probably because of a VHF radio distress call and not a ELB/PLB. Those devices often depend on reception by overflying commercial aircraft, which are bound by international treaty to monitor the frequencies and forward reports to land-based authorities. Others use satellite reception. Such beacons are the method of last resort when far from land and not in the company of other nearby vessels, and it can take quite awhile for responders to get the report and make it out to the area.

lolc 7y ago

Would you also respect a CEO more if he'd commit suicide? Because that's what this captain did.

jessaustin 7y ago
Yes. Suicide is a meaningful way to atone for wrongdoing. Sometimes it's the only option one could respect.
- jacobwilliamroy 7y ago
  Haha! Jokes on you man. Suicide just means we have one less hand to help wash the shitted bedsheets. Live people are much more likely to help you get what you want.
  - jessaustin 7y ago
    The number of hands available is rarely the problem with the bedsheets. "I screwed it up therefore I'm more qualified to tell the peons how to fix it!" is a particularly impoverished variant of argument from authority. The bedsheet-shitter is welcome to give his life whatever meaning he can through whatever means don't involve his continued access to our bedsheets.

tgsovlerkhgsel 7y ago

I think going down with the ship may have less to do with honor in this case, but with the realization that he made such a serious mistake that his career (and likely freedom) was over and suicide became an attractive option. He killed five of his men, and sank the ship because he wanted to save then net and catch. I suspect whichever authorities had jurisdiction over him would frown upon that.