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Tbh, I still prefer a "classic" no-bullshit website that depends on jQuery just because the dev likes it a thousand times over the modern overloaded "just-becau

Tbh, I still prefer a "classic" no-bullshit website that depends on jQuery just because the dev likes it a thousand times over the modern overloaded "just-because" SPA that depends on five dozen Js frameworks that were hip the day that page was created.

DanielBMarkham 7y ago
Yes. We've got an entire generation of front-end guys tooled up with awesome-looking IDEs and six hundred npm packages creating sites that need none of that. Each of these packages has dependencies, bugs, security issues, their own roadmaps, and so on. I believe in brutally low overhead websites, but I'd still use JQuery if I had to. It's one of a very few things that just make sense no matter what you're doing, and combined with CDNs and cache reloads, you're highly unlikely to be pulling even that 30k over the wire when you use it. We're going to make a ton of super-cool websites using the new stuff we have. Meanwhile we're also going to make a ton of messes. The cool kids will move on to more tools and gadgets. The second-string bunch will be left struggling to maintain. At some point there'll have to be a huge clean up. Consultants will make lots of money. Many of these consultants will be the people selling us all this crap we don't need right now. I wish this were some outlier story or a case of crotchety cynicism, but tech has been really consistent about repeating this pattern over and over again, sadly. We keep buying and using things based on the way we feel. Then they don't work out, people get frustrated, make an entirely new layer of stuff designed to make us feel good. Meanwhile, about 1-in-100 of these things turn out to be useful over longer periods of time. I'd give that award to JQuery.
rmilejczz 7y ago
The whole “so many Js frameworks!” thing is ridiculous. The same dominant frameworks have been popular for _years_ now, and while new frameworks do pop up people mostly use these same dominant frameworks, and these dominant frameworks are incredibly _samey_, relying on reactive data concepts, components, and a Fluxlike data store pattern for more complex apps. Going from React to Vue or even to modern Angular is really not a huge context switch anymore. The Js framework ecosystem is incredibly easy to work with in 2019, sorry if I came off a little strong with my rant but that sentiment makes me cringe. It is absurd hyperbole that’s not productive and doesn’t reflect the real state of web development in 2019 in any way. Overall I agree a framework isn’t a requirement for a good web app
- wolco 7y ago
  "The Js framework ecosystem is incredibly easy to work with in 2019" Can you help me get npm installed under windows 10? Serious question... moved from windows 7 to a brand new computer with windows 10 and the modern js ecosystem doesn't just work. I have node installed paths set
  - rmilejczz 7y ago
    To be clear I’m talking about the ecosystem of front end frameworks ala React, Vue, Angular not the Js ecosystem as a whole. That being said I’m not sure what trouble you’re running into but I highly recommend using chocolatey as a native package manager for windows, it works very well as a replacement for utilities like apt-get, yum, brew etc. https://chocolatey.org/packages/nodejs https://chocolatey.org/packages/nodejs

DanielBMarkham 7y ago

Yes. We've got an entire generation of front-end guys tooled up with awesome-looking IDEs and six hundred npm packages creating sites that need none of that. Each of these packages has dependencies, bugs, security issues, their own roadmaps, and so on. I believe in brutally low overhead websites, but I'd still use JQuery if I had to. It's one of a very few things that just make sense no matter what you're doing, and combined with CDNs and cache reloads, you're highly unlikely to be pulling even that 30k over the wire when you use it. We're going to make a ton of super-cool websites using the new stuff we have. Meanwhile we're also going to make a ton of messes. The cool kids will move on to more tools and gadgets. The second-string bunch will be left struggling to maintain. At some point there'll have to be a huge clean up. Consultants will make lots of money. Many of these consultants will be the people selling us all this crap we don't need right now. I wish this were some outlier story or a case of crotchety cynicism, but tech has been really consistent about repeating this pattern over and over again, sadly. We keep buying and using things based on the way we feel. Then they don't work out, people get frustrated, make an entirely new layer of stuff designed to make us feel good. Meanwhile, about 1-in-100 of these things turn out to be useful over longer periods of time. I'd give that award to JQuery.

rmilejczz 7y ago

The whole “so many Js frameworks!” thing is ridiculous. The same dominant frameworks have been popular for _years_ now, and while new frameworks do pop up people mostly use these same dominant frameworks, and these dominant frameworks are incredibly _samey_, relying on reactive data concepts, components, and a Fluxlike data store pattern for more complex apps. Going from React to Vue or even to modern Angular is really not a huge context switch anymore. The Js framework ecosystem is incredibly easy to work with in 2019, sorry if I came off a little strong with my rant but that sentiment makes me cringe. It is absurd hyperbole that’s not productive and doesn’t reflect the real state of web development in 2019 in any way. Overall I agree a framework isn’t a requirement for a good web app

wolco 7y ago
"The Js framework ecosystem is incredibly easy to work with in 2019" Can you help me get npm installed under windows 10? Serious question... moved from windows 7 to a brand new computer with windows 10 and the modern js ecosystem doesn't just work. I have node installed paths set
- rmilejczz 7y ago
  To be clear I’m talking about the ecosystem of front end frameworks ala React, Vue, Angular not the Js ecosystem as a whole. That being said I’m not sure what trouble you’re running into but I highly recommend using chocolatey as a native package manager for windows, it works very well as a replacement for utilities like apt-get, yum, brew etc. https://chocolatey.org/packages/nodejs https://chocolatey.org/packages/nodejs