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There's an even more compelling reason why Apple's waiting a while before announcing the tracking tags: crowdsourcing. At WWDC this year, Apple announced that

There's an even more compelling reason why Apple's waiting a while before announcing the tracking tags: crowdsourcing. At WWDC this year, Apple announced that all iOS devices would begin reporting nearby devices' locations back to Apple. U1 probably only works at relatively close range, so they want to wait until their "crowdsourcing network" includes enough devices for long-range tracking to work. (IIRC they aren't going to let users prevent their devices from contributing to the network, so it's just a matter of waiting until everyone has the latest iOS update.)

madeofpalk 7y ago
> all iOS devices would begin reporting nearby devices' locations back to Apple Just to clarify for others - its not that all iOS devices will report the location of all other devices, but rather "lost" devices will emit a (BLE?) signal, which nearby Apple devices will report its location back to Apple.
- ejstronge 7y ago
  > Just to clarify for others - its not that all iOS devices will report the location of all other devices, but rather "lost" devices will emit a (BLE?) signal, which nearby Apple devices will report its location back to Apple. How would a lost device know it was lost? The Wired piece on this suggests that all devices are always broadcasting their location: https://www.wired.com/story/apple-find-my-cryptography-bluetooth/ https://www.wired.com/story/apple-find-my-cryptography-bluet...
  - madeofpalk 7y ago
    I'm trying to find sources, but its alluding me at the moment, but my understanding was that when a device is offline for long enough, it freaks out and starts emitting its key.
ngcc_hk 7y ago
is that data privacy issue if we cannot opt out ?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- Despegar 7y ago
  Wired has a good article about how it works https://www.wired.com/story/apple-find-my-cryptography-bluetooth/ https://www.wired.com/story/apple-find-my-cryptography-bluet...
  - TaylorAlexander 7y ago
    A rotating scheme that makes it impossible for the wrong actors to track you. It would be better if I could verify the code running on the device. You have to trust that Apple won’t track you. And hey, I trust Apple more than some unfriendly government, but I still have to trust Apple. If a big profitable unfriendly government asked them to track someone, what would Apple do?
    - eridius 7y ago
      > If a big profitable unfriendly government asked them to track someone, what would Apple do? Presumably the exact same thing they'd have done if they hadn't rolled out this Find My feature. They designed it so Apple can't tell where your device is, which means if anyone wants to demand this info from Apple, then Apple has to implement that tracking separately, which they could do regardless of the Find My feature's existence. If Apple had access to the device data themselves, then that's a huge problem because governments can reasonably start issuing warrants for that info. The fact that Apple doesn't have it means nothing has changed on the governmental front.
      - TaylorAlexander 7y ago
        > The fact that Apple doesn't have it means nothing has changed on the governmental front. You’re presuming that Apple does not “have” our location data. I am making the claim that Apple could gain our location data if Apple wanted to. I think we are making different arguments. I don’t know if Apple has anyone’s location data. But if Apple decided to selectively enable the collection of some people’s location data, the iPhone 11 would offer them increased precision which other iPhone 11 users would unknowingly assist in collecting.
cududa 7y ago
Thise location tags are going to be an incredible tracking asset to an eventual “AR map of the world”

madeofpalk 7y ago

> all iOS devices would begin reporting nearby devices' locations back to Apple Just to clarify for others - its not that all iOS devices will report the location of all other devices, but rather "lost" devices will emit a (BLE?) signal, which nearby Apple devices will report its location back to Apple.

ejstronge 7y ago
> Just to clarify for others - its not that all iOS devices will report the location of all other devices, but rather "lost" devices will emit a (BLE?) signal, which nearby Apple devices will report its location back to Apple. How would a lost device know it was lost? The Wired piece on this suggests that all devices are always broadcasting their location: https://www.wired.com/story/apple-find-my-cryptography-bluetooth/ https://www.wired.com/story/apple-find-my-cryptography-bluet...
- madeofpalk 7y ago
  I'm trying to find sources, but its alluding me at the moment, but my understanding was that when a device is offline for long enough, it freaks out and starts emitting its key.

ngcc_hk 7y ago

is that data privacy issue if we cannot opt out ?

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
Despegar 7y ago
Wired has a good article about how it works https://www.wired.com/story/apple-find-my-cryptography-bluetooth/ https://www.wired.com/story/apple-find-my-cryptography-bluet...
- TaylorAlexander 7y ago
  A rotating scheme that makes it impossible for the wrong actors to track you. It would be better if I could verify the code running on the device. You have to trust that Apple won’t track you. And hey, I trust Apple more than some unfriendly government, but I still have to trust Apple. If a big profitable unfriendly government asked them to track someone, what would Apple do?
  - eridius 7y ago
    > If a big profitable unfriendly government asked them to track someone, what would Apple do? Presumably the exact same thing they'd have done if they hadn't rolled out this Find My feature. They designed it so Apple can't tell where your device is, which means if anyone wants to demand this info from Apple, then Apple has to implement that tracking separately, which they could do regardless of the Find My feature's existence. If Apple had access to the device data themselves, then that's a huge problem because governments can reasonably start issuing warrants for that info. The fact that Apple doesn't have it means nothing has changed on the governmental front.
    - TaylorAlexander 7y ago
      > The fact that Apple doesn't have it means nothing has changed on the governmental front. You’re presuming that Apple does not “have” our location data. I am making the claim that Apple could gain our location data if Apple wanted to. I think we are making different arguments. I don’t know if Apple has anyone’s location data. But if Apple decided to selectively enable the collection of some people’s location data, the iPhone 11 would offer them increased precision which other iPhone 11 users would unknowingly assist in collecting.

cududa 7y ago

Thise location tags are going to be an incredible tracking asset to an eventual “AR map of the world”