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>“Our democracy’s ideals were false when they were written.” This is a very dangerous sentiment. If you look at the movements for abolition and Civil Rights, t
by RcouF1uZ4gsC 7y ago
>“Our democracy’s ideals were false when they were written.”
This is a very dangerous sentiment. If you look at the movements for abolition and Civil Rights, the most successful appeals were calling America to live up to her founding ideals.
However, it seems that many people are trying to effect change not through encouraging Americans to live up to their county’s ideals, but the shame them and guilt-trip them into doing it.
The problem is that guilt is a very poor long-term motivator. Think of you have a someone you are trying to do better. Are you more likely to succeed by telling them how horrible they are and how they have always been horrible and how their parents were horrible? Or do you tell them that they are a fundamentally good person and that they should try to do better in this area as well?
The shaming approach may feel for satisfying, but it is likely to create a strong backlash and and problems down the line.
Think about it, there is no denying that America has been fabulously successful for white people. Now do you tell white people that their success was because of the ideals and open society, and they should cultivate them more, or do you tell them that their success was due to oppression of brown/black people? And if you tell them the later, what will you say when others also come and agree with what you are saying and say that we should get back to oppressing brown and black people in earnest, since that what our success was built on?
- crooked-v 7y ago> not through encouraging Americans to live up to their county’s ideals, but the shame them and guilt-trip them into doing it Shame and guilt-tripping on a national level is a fundamental part of modern non-violent protest in the US: https://www.history.com/news/selmas-bloody-sunday-50-years-ago https://www.history.com/news/selmas-bloody-sunday-50-years-a...
- krapp 7y ago>Now do you tell white people that their success was because of the ideals and open society, and they should cultivate them more, or do you tell them that their success was due to oppression of brown/black people? Both are true. Part of cultivating the ideals and open society is being aware of the artifacts of racial prejudice and privilege that still influence it. One can accept that white privilege exists without interpreting it as a blanket condemnation of all white people.
- ultrablack 7y agoSo what is the reason of Germanys success? Or Israels or the UK? Oppression of black people?
- krapp 7y ago>So what is the reason of Germanys success? Or Israels or the UK? Oppression of black people? You're pretending that my comment was arguing that oppression of black people is the only reason for any success by any population, which would of course be an absurd and easily refuted claim, when it explicitly argues otherwise, as would be obvious from even a cursory reading of it in good faith. You need to put a bit more effort into constructing your strawmen, this one was mostly hollow.
- AstralStorm 7y agoReason for Germany success were the industries built for war with money and resources taken off others. Combined with reasonable work ethic and being on the right side of USA - Russia debate. (Which included things like Marshall Plan.) For a time, Italy was successful too, but they slipped. Why they slipped I'm not fully clear on. Israel got USA support and investment, including military. That's about it. (You can repeat the same for e.g. South Korea, who are an even bigger success. For now.) UK was a success (for a time) based off a huge empire and consequent innovation needed for war and to adapt for living in weird places, and to look like they own the world and not like a dark smudge of coal. Big cultural exports. And lately it's only holding to its financial industry, boosted by the position of middleman between EU and US. No idea what will happen to it now. They cannot be industrial powerhouse anymore to rival China or Germany.