6 ms·

> Why don't American's like unions? Unions are a layer of bureaucracy, red tape and an entity that cares more about the Union than anything else. Add to that,

> Why don't American's like unions? Unions are a layer of bureaucracy, red tape and an entity that cares more about the Union than anything else. Add to that, as a conservative and right leaning individual, the last thing I want is be forced to donate to left leaning organizations that go against my best interests. Color it for what you will... I think there are cases where Unions do important things. But most of those cases are long in the past and most unions today are Yet Another Bureaucratic Mess that is useless and leaches off of society as a whole.

bgilroy26 7y ago
>Unions are a layer of bureaucracy, red tape and an entity that cares more about the Union than anything else. These descriptors cover most human organizations. Churches, clubs, businesses.
- TheOtherHobbes 7y ago
  Corporations.
- wernercd 7y ago
  The difference is whether you willingly join or not. You choose to go to church, clubs or spend money at businesses. If you're part of a union... chances are you don't have a choice. The difference is that with the "churches, clubs, businesses" - when they do wrong... people go elsewhere (IE: Ask the Catholic Church). With Unions? You're forced to stay with the Union if you want to keep the job. IF the union is "mandatory" or the Church is - I think both of those situations are wrong. If a union is truly worth the fee... it shouldn't be a the end of a gun (Government/Corporate/etc mandate, forced fees, etc).
  - bgilroy26 7y ago
    A union is different from a church, club, or being a consumer some place because it is at your job and is part of how you generate income. Non-union employees get the same pay raises union employees do, a rational actor in a non-compulsory union shop would not join the union because they don't want to pay dues. That is why joining a union is compulsory.
matchbok 7y ago
Well, great. Exactly 0 people are "forced" to pay into a union they don't want to be a part of! If you don't want a union job the solution is simple: don't take that job. But I guess the numerous benefits you enjoy today because of unions don't matter all.
- mlrtime 7y ago
  Not true https://www.nrtw.org/required-join-pay-private/ https://www.nrtw.org/required-join-pay-private/
  - matchbok 7y ago
    Last time I checked no job was mandatory in this country. If a job is unionized, don't take it. Sounds pretty simple to me.
    - wernercd 7y ago
      If a union is worth the membership, why make it mandatory? Shouldn't it sell itself? Reality is... that's obviously not true.
- wernercd 7y ago
  As of today... that may be true. It wasn't this way a few short years ago. https://reason.com/2019/04/09/janus-211000-workers-fled-seiu-afscme/ https://reason.com/2019/04/09/janus-211000-workers-fled-seiu... And, as expected... those who aren't forced to pay - don't. Because the fees aren't worth it in most cases. > I guess the numerous benefits don't matter As I said... in some cases and at one point most unions did "Good Things (tm)". But like most "Good Things (tm)" that time has ended - for most unions - and we are in a point where the unions are largely useless and extra baggage that causes more harm than good. And again - your "Unions don't matter? /tear" doesn't approach what is personally my main problem: My inability to decide where union dues go to.
  - matchbok 7y ago

bgilroy26 7y ago

>Unions are a layer of bureaucracy, red tape and an entity that cares more about the Union than anything else. These descriptors cover most human organizations. Churches, clubs, businesses.

TheOtherHobbes 7y ago
Corporations.
wernercd 7y ago
The difference is whether you willingly join or not. You choose to go to church, clubs or spend money at businesses. If you're part of a union... chances are you don't have a choice. The difference is that with the "churches, clubs, businesses" - when they do wrong... people go elsewhere (IE: Ask the Catholic Church). With Unions? You're forced to stay with the Union if you want to keep the job. IF the union is "mandatory" or the Church is - I think both of those situations are wrong. If a union is truly worth the fee... it shouldn't be a the end of a gun (Government/Corporate/etc mandate, forced fees, etc).
- bgilroy26 7y ago
  A union is different from a church, club, or being a consumer some place because it is at your job and is part of how you generate income. Non-union employees get the same pay raises union employees do, a rational actor in a non-compulsory union shop would not join the union because they don't want to pay dues. That is why joining a union is compulsory.

matchbok 7y ago

Well, great. Exactly 0 people are "forced" to pay into a union they don't want to be a part of! If you don't want a union job the solution is simple: don't take that job. But I guess the numerous benefits you enjoy today because of unions don't matter all.

mlrtime 7y ago
Not true https://www.nrtw.org/required-join-pay-private/ https://www.nrtw.org/required-join-pay-private/
- matchbok 7y ago
  Last time I checked no job was mandatory in this country. If a job is unionized, don't take it. Sounds pretty simple to me.
  - wernercd 7y ago
    If a union is worth the membership, why make it mandatory? Shouldn't it sell itself? Reality is... that's obviously not true.
wernercd 7y ago
As of today... that may be true. It wasn't this way a few short years ago. https://reason.com/2019/04/09/janus-211000-workers-fled-seiu-afscme/ https://reason.com/2019/04/09/janus-211000-workers-fled-seiu... And, as expected... those who aren't forced to pay - don't. Because the fees aren't worth it in most cases. > I guess the numerous benefits don't matter As I said... in some cases and at one point most unions did "Good Things (tm)". But like most "Good Things (tm)" that time has ended - for most unions - and we are in a point where the unions are largely useless and extra baggage that causes more harm than good. And again - your "Unions don't matter? /tear" doesn't approach what is personally my main problem: My inability to decide where union dues go to.
- matchbok 7y ago