3 ms·

We need more financial freedom in the west. Facebook is right to allow its users the ability to protect their assets with Libra - backed by a basket of currenci

We need more financial freedom in the west. Facebook is right to allow its users the ability to protect their assets with Libra - backed by a basket of currencies. I'm very excited about this idea; of course Governments are not going to be comfortable with something they can not control. Whey they go to the printing press to pay for their deficits I certainly want the ability to protect my assets with a stronger currency.

olivierduval 7y ago
Not sure to be more comfortable to rely more on the interests of a private US company that has already been proven un-ethical several times than to trust an elected (so revokable) governement ;-) But in Europe, we have more trust in our own governement and less in corporation than in the US, where it seem to be the opposite
- justinzollars 7y ago
  I would rephrase this to say, in America we have less trust in government and more trust in the individual. The distinction is this: No one is forcing anyone to use Libra its your choice. : )
  - jacquesm 7y ago
    > I would rephrase this to say, in America we have less trust in government and more trust in the individual. I've seen that said many times in fora (fortunately not so often on HN), but the only people that seem to subscribe to it are the preppers and the gun fanatics, usually using some kind of reference to words that have not been updated in a couple of centuries. It's about as useful as wanting to back to the glory days of England. Americans trust their government on average just about as much as people of other countries trust theirs, with a notable exception made for the Swiss. > The distinction is this: No one is forcing anyone to use Libra its your choice. : ) And it is the choice of the democratically chosen governments of France and Germany to decide to so something about it, and I'm fully in agreement with that. The last we need is for the Zuckerbergs to have the power to start dictating monetary policy, the amount of power he has today is already way more than he should have. Note that neither Germany nor France has decided to 'block bitcoin', or outlaw it (which they could do, but it remains to be seen how much effect that would have). And we are not forced to use that either.
  - adev_ 7y ago
    > in America we have less trust in government and more trust in the individual Maybe, excepted that Facebook is not an individual. Compagnies are not individual. They are just private entities seeking for their own profit and should be treated as such. There is no trust to have in Facebook: if they can fuck half of the world to double their benefits, they will do it. That's it. Trusting such entity to ensure "common good of people" through a currency is simply madness. And Libra is exactly that. I'm sorry if it shock the American "free" way of thinking, but this is our European way of thinking.
    - dragonwriter 7y ago
      > Maybe, excepted that Facebook is not an individual. Compagnies are not individual. Corporations are exercises or government power, in fact.
  - gjulianm 7y ago
    > No one is forcing anyone to use Libra its your choice. Don't be naive. - In order to make a choice, you need to be properly informed. Now, most people won't have the time or interest to see what Libra is and what the consequences of widespread Libra adoption would be. - Facebook can force a sector of their paying users (mainly advertisers) to use Libra. - Facebook also has a lot of influence, most people use at least one of Facebook, Instagram or Whatsapp. Those apps can be used to advertise and push Libra. - Once Libra adoption reaches a critical point, you'd need to use it because you need to buy things. - You don't need to use it to suffer negative consequences due to a private foreign for-profit business controlling monetary policy.
    - clarkmoody 7y ago
      > You don't need to use it to suffer negative consequences due to a private foreign for-profit business controlling monetary policy. And the track record of public, non-profit entities controlling monetary policy is ... great?
      - gjulianm 7y ago
        Nothing indicates that Facebook would have a better track record in controlling monetary policy (which is admittedly pretty hard), and at least central banks are under clear regulations and guidelines. Furthermore, Libra would have incentive to move the policy towards further profit for the members, while central banks have incentives to stabilize the economy.
aduitsis 7y ago
So, if "they" decide to do something with their currency, "you" would like to be able to opt out. So you position your interests outside theirs (correct me if I'm wrong). Fair enough, it's certainly your right. But in that light, what France and Germany are doing makes sense too. At the end of the day, they too have the right to protect their collective interests, correct? Or would you have them do something that goes against their interests so you would be able to protect your assets?
- justinzollars 7y ago
  I'm pro innovation! I can not understand why entrepreneurs have such targets on their back these days on hackernews.
  - aduitsis 7y ago
    Well, I do respect that, and being in favour of innovation is certainly desirable in many contexts. On the second part of your comment: I suspect some tech companies were given a while lot of leeway in many aspects by society at large, because it was generally believed that they would act in a more responsible way. Now, we come to the realization that maybe some of that leeway was misplaced. There's another HN article in the frontpage today that basically floats the idea that Big Tech is a menace to Democracy itself. I think that's partly the explanation why people (and nations in general) are so suspicious of Libra.
  - ClumsyPilot 7y ago
    I feel its most Facebook and BigTech that are facing scrutiny, It is targeted and justified but they are not entrepreneurs. They are now large institutions,and should face scrutiny.
short_sells_poo 7y ago
At this point my opinion of Facebook is so low that I'd rather trust the incompetent monetary policy of governments than the competent but positively evil policy of Facebook. I'm aware that I'm very biased here but the tragedy that is Facebook upsets me all the more for what it could've been. Instead of being a boon to society, they've become the worst form of surveillance capitalism. I wouldn't trust facebook with handling my garden, let alone a monetary system. They have proven time and time again that they are reckless if not outright malicious and outdo even some incumbent bad guys in the sheer underhanded disregard for anything but their own bottom line.
- justinzollars 7y ago
  I don't like facebook either, I don't use it but I do like this idea. Libra is an innovation. A cryptocurrency backed by currencies (and credit markets) is very exciting.
  - short_sells_poo 7y ago
    It is an interesting idea, but we cannot look at it in vacuum. Does the value of an idea transcend the context in which it is born and where it is executed? Perhaps, but Facebook has shown time and time again that it cannot be trusted to do the right thing, it will systematically choose profit. Sometimes those two align, but this is not a foundation to build the future of our society on.

olivierduval 7y ago

Not sure to be more comfortable to rely more on the interests of a private US company that has already been proven un-ethical several times than to trust an elected (so revokable) governement ;-) But in Europe, we have more trust in our own governement and less in corporation than in the US, where it seem to be the opposite

justinzollars 7y ago
I would rephrase this to say, in America we have less trust in government and more trust in the individual. The distinction is this: No one is forcing anyone to use Libra its your choice. : )
- jacquesm 7y ago
  > I would rephrase this to say, in America we have less trust in government and more trust in the individual. I've seen that said many times in fora (fortunately not so often on HN), but the only people that seem to subscribe to it are the preppers and the gun fanatics, usually using some kind of reference to words that have not been updated in a couple of centuries. It's about as useful as wanting to back to the glory days of England. Americans trust their government on average just about as much as people of other countries trust theirs, with a notable exception made for the Swiss. > The distinction is this: No one is forcing anyone to use Libra its your choice. : ) And it is the choice of the democratically chosen governments of France and Germany to decide to so something about it, and I'm fully in agreement with that. The last we need is for the Zuckerbergs to have the power to start dictating monetary policy, the amount of power he has today is already way more than he should have. Note that neither Germany nor France has decided to 'block bitcoin', or outlaw it (which they could do, but it remains to be seen how much effect that would have). And we are not forced to use that either.
- adev_ 7y ago
  > in America we have less trust in government and more trust in the individual Maybe, excepted that Facebook is not an individual. Compagnies are not individual. They are just private entities seeking for their own profit and should be treated as such. There is no trust to have in Facebook: if they can fuck half of the world to double their benefits, they will do it. That's it. Trusting such entity to ensure "common good of people" through a currency is simply madness. And Libra is exactly that. I'm sorry if it shock the American "free" way of thinking, but this is our European way of thinking.
  - dragonwriter 7y ago
    > Maybe, excepted that Facebook is not an individual. Compagnies are not individual. Corporations are exercises or government power, in fact.
- gjulianm 7y ago
  > No one is forcing anyone to use Libra its your choice. Don't be naive. - In order to make a choice, you need to be properly informed. Now, most people won't have the time or interest to see what Libra is and what the consequences of widespread Libra adoption would be. - Facebook can force a sector of their paying users (mainly advertisers) to use Libra. - Facebook also has a lot of influence, most people use at least one of Facebook, Instagram or Whatsapp. Those apps can be used to advertise and push Libra. - Once Libra adoption reaches a critical point, you'd need to use it because you need to buy things. - You don't need to use it to suffer negative consequences due to a private foreign for-profit business controlling monetary policy.
  - clarkmoody 7y ago
    > You don't need to use it to suffer negative consequences due to a private foreign for-profit business controlling monetary policy. And the track record of public, non-profit entities controlling monetary policy is ... great?
    - gjulianm 7y ago
      Nothing indicates that Facebook would have a better track record in controlling monetary policy (which is admittedly pretty hard), and at least central banks are under clear regulations and guidelines. Furthermore, Libra would have incentive to move the policy towards further profit for the members, while central banks have incentives to stabilize the economy.

aduitsis 7y ago

So, if "they" decide to do something with their currency, "you" would like to be able to opt out. So you position your interests outside theirs (correct me if I'm wrong). Fair enough, it's certainly your right. But in that light, what France and Germany are doing makes sense too. At the end of the day, they too have the right to protect their collective interests, correct? Or would you have them do something that goes against their interests so you would be able to protect your assets?

justinzollars 7y ago
I'm pro innovation! I can not understand why entrepreneurs have such targets on their back these days on hackernews.
- aduitsis 7y ago
  Well, I do respect that, and being in favour of innovation is certainly desirable in many contexts. On the second part of your comment: I suspect some tech companies were given a while lot of leeway in many aspects by society at large, because it was generally believed that they would act in a more responsible way. Now, we come to the realization that maybe some of that leeway was misplaced. There's another HN article in the frontpage today that basically floats the idea that Big Tech is a menace to Democracy itself. I think that's partly the explanation why people (and nations in general) are so suspicious of Libra.
- ClumsyPilot 7y ago
  I feel its most Facebook and BigTech that are facing scrutiny, It is targeted and justified but they are not entrepreneurs. They are now large institutions,and should face scrutiny.

short_sells_poo 7y ago

At this point my opinion of Facebook is so low that I'd rather trust the incompetent monetary policy of governments than the competent but positively evil policy of Facebook. I'm aware that I'm very biased here but the tragedy that is Facebook upsets me all the more for what it could've been. Instead of being a boon to society, they've become the worst form of surveillance capitalism. I wouldn't trust facebook with handling my garden, let alone a monetary system. They have proven time and time again that they are reckless if not outright malicious and outdo even some incumbent bad guys in the sheer underhanded disregard for anything but their own bottom line.

justinzollars 7y ago
I don't like facebook either, I don't use it but I do like this idea. Libra is an innovation. A cryptocurrency backed by currencies (and credit markets) is very exciting.
- short_sells_poo 7y ago
  It is an interesting idea, but we cannot look at it in vacuum. Does the value of an idea transcend the context in which it is born and where it is executed? Perhaps, but Facebook has shown time and time again that it cannot be trusted to do the right thing, it will systematically choose profit. Sometimes those two align, but this is not a foundation to build the future of our society on.