4 ms·

To imagine a scenario, sure. I can imagine plenty of scenarios. Epstein liked to film his visitors and use the material to blackmail them. Knowing that, it's n

by codr7 7y ago

To imagine a scenario, sure. I can imagine plenty of scenarios. Epstein liked to film his visitors and use the material to blackmail them. Knowing that, it's not unreasonable to assume that he ordered his slaves to behave nice and inviting. You should be very careful about drawing lines between what you can and can't think. Once you do that, it doesn't really matter if you call it Religion or Science; you're still hosed.

mikeash 7y ago
He’s not just imagining a scenario. He’s saying that this is the most likely scenario, and that the fact that she presented as willing makes everything totally cool.
- prepend 7y ago
  > totally cool I didnt read that in the email thread. Human trafficked sex slaves appearing willing to Minsky does not mean everything is totally cool.
  - mikeash 7y ago
    He keeps saying it shouldn’t qualify as sexual assault or rape. If it’s not that then what is it?
    - prepend 7y ago
      For Minsksy it’s at least statutory rape, not cool at all. For Epstein it’s the whole gamut of messed up stuff, also not cool. It seems to me that Stallman is saying that qualifying language is valuable as statutory rape in USVI (and most other jurisdictions) has a much smaller penalty than other forms of sexual assault. So using the same word for Epstein and Minsky is not fair, I think, to their victims. But saying “use more accurate language” is not the same as saying what Minsky is accused of is totally cool.
      - mikeash 7y ago
        He also spends a lot of time arguing that statutory rape shouldn’t count. So if he thinks that’s all Minsky did, it seems entirely fair to summarize that as “totally cool.” Not to mention that if Minsky did in fact have sex with a slave who was forced to do it, that’s real actual rape, and the best thing you could say there is that Minsky was somehow tricked into committing rape.
        prepend 7y ago
        Lots of people think statutory rape shouldn’t count. In the British Virgin Islands the age of consent is 16, so the crime Minsky is accused of isn’t a crime a little while away. I don’t think it’s fair, or accurate, to characterize the entire population of the British VI as being “totally cool” with other forms of sexual assault and human trafficking. I think the risk I run is in characterizing acts incorrectly. I’m not aware of anyone being charged with “actual rape” for having sex with human trafficked prostitutes in USVI. So it depends a lot on the facts of the case, etc etc. We will have a tough time knowing what Minsky knew and didn’t know. I think it’s reasonable to know if a sex partner is legs age, but it’s much harder to know whether someone was exploiting someone against their will. But legally I’m not sure he would be charged with being “unwilling rape” or whatever crime you think he committed. What I’m trying to point out is that someone can be against statutory rape, even against rape tricking, and not think it is “totally cool.” Logically, it is not appropriate to make such leaps unless we have more info.
        DanBC 7y ago
        The US, and England, and probably other countries, have enacted laws that mean some sexual offences against children committed outside those jurisdictions can be tried inside the jurisdiction. Precisely to stop this kind of sex tourism. See for example this from England: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/section/48 https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/section/48 https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/section/53A https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/section/53A
        mikeash 7y ago
- gowld 7y ago
  Your repeated false statements in this comments page might be doing your cause more harm than good, since others have posted links and full actual quotations that contradict your statements.

by codr7 7y ago

mikeash 7y ago

He’s not just imagining a scenario. He’s saying that this is the most likely scenario, and that the fact that she presented as willing makes everything totally cool.

prepend 7y ago
> totally cool I didnt read that in the email thread. Human trafficked sex slaves appearing willing to Minsky does not mean everything is totally cool.
- mikeash 7y ago
  He keeps saying it shouldn’t qualify as sexual assault or rape. If it’s not that then what is it?
  - prepend 7y ago
    For Minsksy it’s at least statutory rape, not cool at all. For Epstein it’s the whole gamut of messed up stuff, also not cool. It seems to me that Stallman is saying that qualifying language is valuable as statutory rape in USVI (and most other jurisdictions) has a much smaller penalty than other forms of sexual assault. So using the same word for Epstein and Minsky is not fair, I think, to their victims. But saying “use more accurate language” is not the same as saying what Minsky is accused of is totally cool.
    - mikeash 7y ago
      He also spends a lot of time arguing that statutory rape shouldn’t count. So if he thinks that’s all Minsky did, it seems entirely fair to summarize that as “totally cool.” Not to mention that if Minsky did in fact have sex with a slave who was forced to do it, that’s real actual rape, and the best thing you could say there is that Minsky was somehow tricked into committing rape.
      - prepend 7y ago
        Lots of people think statutory rape shouldn’t count. In the British Virgin Islands the age of consent is 16, so the crime Minsky is accused of isn’t a crime a little while away. I don’t think it’s fair, or accurate, to characterize the entire population of the British VI as being “totally cool” with other forms of sexual assault and human trafficking. I think the risk I run is in characterizing acts incorrectly. I’m not aware of anyone being charged with “actual rape” for having sex with human trafficked prostitutes in USVI. So it depends a lot on the facts of the case, etc etc. We will have a tough time knowing what Minsky knew and didn’t know. I think it’s reasonable to know if a sex partner is legs age, but it’s much harder to know whether someone was exploiting someone against their will. But legally I’m not sure he would be charged with being “unwilling rape” or whatever crime you think he committed. What I’m trying to point out is that someone can be against statutory rape, even against rape tricking, and not think it is “totally cool.” Logically, it is not appropriate to make such leaps unless we have more info.
        DanBC 7y ago
        The US, and England, and probably other countries, have enacted laws that mean some sexual offences against children committed outside those jurisdictions can be tried inside the jurisdiction. Precisely to stop this kind of sex tourism. See for example this from England: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/section/48 https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/section/48 https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/section/53A https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/section/53A
        mikeash 7y ago
gowld 7y ago
Your repeated false statements in this comments page might be doing your cause more harm than good, since others have posted links and full actual quotations that contradict your statements.