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> Then buy a Linux laptop. Problem(s) solved. I use Linux on the notebooks since around 2003. The problems are far from being solved, from my experience: - Th

by acqq 7y ago

> Then buy a Linux laptop. Problem(s) solved. I use Linux on the notebooks since around 2003. The problems are far from being solved, from my experience: - There was constantly some piece of hardware that wasn't supported. - There were constantly pieces of operating system and user space that were simply broken until a lot of manual work is applied. - The brokenness increases with every update. At the start I didn't use LTS (I don't even remember if the LTS versions even existed for the distro I've used) -- it was a major pain. Six months go by, new upgrade, everything's broken. Search the internet, ask: "oh you upgrade an existing installation? It's not tested, you should installed blank and copied your data, we do that" -- oh thanks. - The brokenness of power saving is amazingly persistent. Linux notebooks typically worked acceptable only when plugged in. - Even worse, the brokenness of the possibility of playing the stutter free videos: https://xkcd.com/619/ https://xkcd.com/619/ I have still that problem (it was not only "flash" that was and is the problem!) and discovered that the "lighter" compositors that are advertised as supposedly needing less resources made even worse results. I still have computers that in 2019 with the latest Linuxes can't play videos normally, whereas on the same computer videos in Windows play perfectly. In short, if you need a computer only for a very reduced set of tasks and are ready to spend the time "fixing" the remaining issues, Linux can work for you. But don't expect "problems solved." On another side using Windows brings its own crazy pains: if you keep even the Windows provided "antivirus" solution on, even file copying can be orders of magnitude slower than what the machine would be able to do. Plus the crapware. And the exposure to many more viruses trojans etc. Or even the ads built in in the OS. So what's then left? Apple. Also not perfect, of course, but some problems are actually "solved" from the start. But using Apple computers brings its own issues and, of course, prices. It's just the question which kinds of problems you want to be exposed to. I personally can't stand not being able to reasonably easy replace a hard disk in my notebook. I don't even know what I can buy the next time.

alkonaut 7y ago
This. When I buy a laptop I want to pay a big pile of money to ensure real people have tested my exact hardware with the OS and drivers I intend to use. It’s the most important feature of a laptop so I don’t mind that being a significant chunk of the price for only that. When I buy a dell or Lenovo I expect crapware but I expect to be able to remove it by installing a clean OS on it.
- acqq 7y ago
  > real people have tested my exact hardware with the OS and drivers I intend to use > When I buy a dell or Lenovo It's still nothing guaranteed with Linux distros, it's just that "mostly works" (for various definitions of "works") state is maintained: recently there was a quite big kernel bug delivered as a trivial update, which affected LTS version of Ubuntu, including Dells and many other brands, as soon as there was a second monitor attached to the machine. The recent Dell docks more didn't than did work for a while, it took many firmware updates to make them "mostly" working. But it still doesn't behave how it should. Etc.
  - alkonaut 7y ago
    Yes, I don't use desktop linux. When I spoke about dell/lenovo I only have experience with Windows. If I ever did buy a deskop linux machine I'd buy one of the preinstalled ones to ensure I wouldn't have to fight the tiny issues with multi-screen DPI, various sleep states etc. Those things are hard enough for manufacturers to get right in windows and Mac OS it seems.
    - acqq 7y ago
      > When I spoke about dell/lenovo I only have experience with Windows. As far as I see, even with Dell, the modern hardware is too commonly untested and poorly developed or integrated with the OS, even with Windows: in my company I don't know anybody who uses built-in trackpads, as it's a common knowledge that they "don't work" but everybody carries the mouse around. I've tried to use the trackpad only to see it broken between different Windows versions (so very like Linux). The same story with the docks -- they seem to worked badly even on Windows. The Dell puts their brand on the final product, but they just integrate whatever they can get at the moment. And even if you integrate Intel devices, they can remain in the software support limbo (happened to me with the Intel WiFi cards which remained unsupported and not working on Windows 10, even if Microsoft forced the upgrade as "everything works"). It's a sad state of the hardware - software integration. And knowing the Apple's problem with the keyboards, it seems that the only portable devices currently fully working "as they should" are the phones and tablets.
grawprog 7y ago
I've used Linux off and on about as long as you and permanently since 2008 or so, I've never really had all these hardware problems I keep reading about over the years. I've had WiFi cards not work with certain distros, which changing to a different one has always fixed. I had issues with multiple displays years ago but that was with an actual CRT monitor hooked up to my laptop. I've had some minor issues getting obscure old gamepads to work on modern distros more recently but other than that everything's always worked pretty well whatever machines I've installed it on. Hell even my old TV tuner card that I could barely manage to make work with the software that came with it originally on xp on my old ass desktop from 1999, works well on Linux without hassle(not that I've used that thing for years now). I agree back in the day, many features were lacking when it came to the desktop, but that hasn't been the case for years. Using the windows 7 computers at my work or the few times I've tried windows 10 feels like a massive step backwards from what I'm used to on my Linux computers. Everything always just works. Whatever hardware I plug in, even stuff I could never get working in windows, like my rp350 guitar pedal or my midi controller, just work. Music and audio recording on linux is just awesome, I could go on all day about how amazing Jack2 is compared to anything I ever used on windows. I've only used Macs post os9 a few times, but I've never really liked them. They always felt limited and closed down. But, I don't know a lot about it so I can't say too much there.

by acqq 7y ago

alkonaut 7y ago

This. When I buy a laptop I want to pay a big pile of money to ensure real people have tested my exact hardware with the OS and drivers I intend to use. It’s the most important feature of a laptop so I don’t mind that being a significant chunk of the price for only that. When I buy a dell or Lenovo I expect crapware but I expect to be able to remove it by installing a clean OS on it.

acqq 7y ago
> real people have tested my exact hardware with the OS and drivers I intend to use > When I buy a dell or Lenovo It's still nothing guaranteed with Linux distros, it's just that "mostly works" (for various definitions of "works") state is maintained: recently there was a quite big kernel bug delivered as a trivial update, which affected LTS version of Ubuntu, including Dells and many other brands, as soon as there was a second monitor attached to the machine. The recent Dell docks more didn't than did work for a while, it took many firmware updates to make them "mostly" working. But it still doesn't behave how it should. Etc.
- alkonaut 7y ago
  Yes, I don't use desktop linux. When I spoke about dell/lenovo I only have experience with Windows. If I ever did buy a deskop linux machine I'd buy one of the preinstalled ones to ensure I wouldn't have to fight the tiny issues with multi-screen DPI, various sleep states etc. Those things are hard enough for manufacturers to get right in windows and Mac OS it seems.
  - acqq 7y ago
    > When I spoke about dell/lenovo I only have experience with Windows. As far as I see, even with Dell, the modern hardware is too commonly untested and poorly developed or integrated with the OS, even with Windows: in my company I don't know anybody who uses built-in trackpads, as it's a common knowledge that they "don't work" but everybody carries the mouse around. I've tried to use the trackpad only to see it broken between different Windows versions (so very like Linux). The same story with the docks -- they seem to worked badly even on Windows. The Dell puts their brand on the final product, but they just integrate whatever they can get at the moment. And even if you integrate Intel devices, they can remain in the software support limbo (happened to me with the Intel WiFi cards which remained unsupported and not working on Windows 10, even if Microsoft forced the upgrade as "everything works"). It's a sad state of the hardware - software integration. And knowing the Apple's problem with the keyboards, it seems that the only portable devices currently fully working "as they should" are the phones and tablets.

grawprog 7y ago

I've used Linux off and on about as long as you and permanently since 2008 or so, I've never really had all these hardware problems I keep reading about over the years. I've had WiFi cards not work with certain distros, which changing to a different one has always fixed. I had issues with multiple displays years ago but that was with an actual CRT monitor hooked up to my laptop. I've had some minor issues getting obscure old gamepads to work on modern distros more recently but other than that everything's always worked pretty well whatever machines I've installed it on. Hell even my old TV tuner card that I could barely manage to make work with the software that came with it originally on xp on my old ass desktop from 1999, works well on Linux without hassle(not that I've used that thing for years now). I agree back in the day, many features were lacking when it came to the desktop, but that hasn't been the case for years. Using the windows 7 computers at my work or the few times I've tried windows 10 feels like a massive step backwards from what I'm used to on my Linux computers. Everything always just works. Whatever hardware I plug in, even stuff I could never get working in windows, like my rp350 guitar pedal or my midi controller, just work. Music and audio recording on linux is just awesome, I could go on all day about how amazing Jack2 is compared to anything I ever used on windows. I've only used Macs post os9 a few times, but I've never really liked them. They always felt limited and closed down. But, I don't know a lot about it so I can't say too much there.