4 ms·

Maybe my experience is totally unique, but when I hire someone who isn’t fresh out of college, I only care about experience / interview skills / references. I g

Maybe my experience is totally unique, but when I hire someone who isn’t fresh out of college, I only care about experience / interview skills / references. I give someone bonus points if they come from a no-name school and still wind up at the top of their game. I’ve also noticed that the best entrepreneurs I’ve worked for have come from no-name schools. It’s almost like industries that are more focused on skills don’t give a shit about what school you went to! It’s always the capped jobs (law, medicine, accounting) that arbitrarily limit who can work in the industry that care most about prestige labels.

hollerith 7y ago
I don't know what it is like in your country, but in the US we are awash in lawyers.
- seibelj 7y ago
  You’d be crazy to hire non-biglaw firms for certain work, and they only hire from T15 schools, so the system perpetuates.
  - HenryKissinger 7y ago
    Are you saying that only the top ~1% of law students are fit for "certain work"?
    - jdavis703 7y ago
      Wouldn't surprise me. Contracts can get really complicated. For example my lease has a series of addendums that allow me to immediately break it with no financial penalities. Had they paid for better lawyers they might have had a more robust document.
      - nowayjosetimes2 7y ago
        did your landlord use a template or hire a law firm?
        jdavis703 7y ago
        It's a multi-billion dollar real estate company, so one assumes they used in-house counsel or a law firm.
    - seibelj 7y ago
      The firm itself is what’s important. If you have serious issues on the line you don’t nickel and dime, you choose among a few white shoe firms. And those firms are absolutely brutal in who they hire.
      - porknubbins 7y ago
        Biglaw firms generally only do work for large corporations so if you have a biglaw issue you already know that.
        seibelj 7y ago
        That is 100% false. Every company I’ve worked for, and none of them were by any means big, paid brand name law firms for work. The thing they all want is money, and if you have money they will work with you.
      - nowayjosetimes2 7y ago
        they're absolutely brutal in that you need to have sailing and jarring your own jam on the 'interests' section of your resume. Let's be real. These biglaw firms have been behind every major legal fuck up from Watergate (https://www.landmarkcases.org/united-states-v-nixon/the-legacy-of-watergate-rethinking-legal-ethics https://www.landmarkcases.org/united-states-v-nixon/the-lega...) to the financial collapse (https://www.dcbar.org/bar-resources/publications/washington-lawyer/articles/january-2010-financial-crisis.cfm https://www.dcbar.org/bar-resources/publications/washington-...). There are a fuckload of dartmouth lacrosse players who put up with the "absolutely brutal" hours, but they're still dartmouth lacrosse players.
  - nowayjosetimes2 7y ago
    work for non-big law, went to a t3. people who listen to junk like this see that and their brains scramble. some of us don't want to work with chuds.
akdas 7y ago
> when I hire someone who isn’t fresh out of college, I only care about experience / interview skills / references If everyone who _did_ hire fresh college grads gave preference only to those coming from exclusive schools, only those from exclusive schools end up with the experience, interview skills and references you look for. In this way, exclusivity perpetuates itself. The best way to _actually_ focus on hiring for skill? Find those who haven't been given a chance before, such as not having attended a top-name school and subsequently didn't end up at top-name firms, then invest in them. It's more expensive to do, but a lot of the top talent doesn't have the experience, interview skills and references you may be looking for.
- dllthomas 7y ago
  > If everyone who _did_ hire fresh college grads gave preference only to those coming from exclusive schools, only those from exclusive schools end up with the experience, interview skills and references you look for. In this way, exclusivity perpetuates itself. That does seem to apply for experience and references. If interview skills benefit from practice, I think it works the other way there.
  - akdas 7y ago
    That's a good point, and I'm sure that's true for many people. Interestingly, for me personally, my interview skills increased as a result of interviewing others, as I understood what interviewers were looking for. The big problem is that interviewers typically don't provide feedback to those who fail the interview. So even that part can have some component of perpetuated exclusivity.
solidsnack9000 7y ago
The elite is small. The companies engaging in practices like only hiring from Stanford CS, only hiring from Berkeley, and only hiring one ethnic group (!) from Stanford are engaging in self-limiting behaviour, as far as head count goes; but their command of capital is high.
- peferron 7y ago
  Which companies are you talking about?
  - mdorazio 7y ago
    Can't speak for the parent comment, but for example back when I was in college doing recruiting, the big management consulting firms only recruited at and hired from specific schools (not mine).
- nickpsecurity 7y ago
  Very well said. They know it, too, like the leaked memos show: https://politicalgates.blogspot.com/2011/12/citigroup-plutonomy-memos-two-bombshell.html https://politicalgates.blogspot.com/2011/12/citigroup-pluton... The greatest threat identified was "equal voting power with the rich." Actually, more given they're 99% versus 1%. The threat is so great that those with capital spend absolutely enormous amounts of money on media convincing people to vote for candidates that are great for the rich but do a tiny thing here and there for everyone else. Also, that the activities facilitating the rich will get them there, too. It's working so far... Similar kind of crap with these "elite" schools and hiring strategies.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
Swizec 7y ago
My fav principle to use when thinking about that stuff goes like this: "School only matters if you ain't got nothing better to show"
- akhilcacharya 7y ago
  To be clear most new grads and people seeking internships..don’t. Even getting into Hackathons was very difficult when I was in undergrad (right around peak Hackathon in 2014/2015). Generally the people that got in and got good internships were the ones that already went to top schools. And all of that is before the interview prep training, the fact that 50% of coding/algorithmic interviews are just proxies for either raw IQ or remembering the problem, etc etc.
  - Swizec 7y ago
    Totally agree. most new grads don't have anything better to show than their diploma and their grades. But some do. Many have open source projects or contributions, some have worked summer programming jobs, some may have even started startups. All of that is better than just schoolwork. And if you're still being asked where you graduated from 5+ years into your career ... something might be wrong. Have you really nothing better to show?
    - akdas 7y ago
      > And if you're still being asked where you graduated from 5+ years into your career ... something might be wrong. Have you really nothing better to show? Sometimes, the fact that someone didn't go to a top-name school limited their choices. If they went to local state school far from Silicon Valley, and they didn't have money to move to the Silicon Valley right away, they may have worked at small, non-engineering-focused companies. So yeah, maybe they're really capable, but 5+ years into their careers, they haven't had the chance to demonstrate it yet.

hollerith 7y ago

I don't know what it is like in your country, but in the US we are awash in lawyers.

seibelj 7y ago
You’d be crazy to hire non-biglaw firms for certain work, and they only hire from T15 schools, so the system perpetuates.
- HenryKissinger 7y ago
  Are you saying that only the top ~1% of law students are fit for "certain work"?
  - jdavis703 7y ago
    Wouldn't surprise me. Contracts can get really complicated. For example my lease has a series of addendums that allow me to immediately break it with no financial penalities. Had they paid for better lawyers they might have had a more robust document.
    - nowayjosetimes2 7y ago
      did your landlord use a template or hire a law firm?
      - jdavis703 7y ago
        It's a multi-billion dollar real estate company, so one assumes they used in-house counsel or a law firm.
  - seibelj 7y ago
    The firm itself is what’s important. If you have serious issues on the line you don’t nickel and dime, you choose among a few white shoe firms. And those firms are absolutely brutal in who they hire.
    - porknubbins 7y ago
      Biglaw firms generally only do work for large corporations so if you have a biglaw issue you already know that.
      - seibelj 7y ago
        That is 100% false. Every company I’ve worked for, and none of them were by any means big, paid brand name law firms for work. The thing they all want is money, and if you have money they will work with you.
    - nowayjosetimes2 7y ago
      they're absolutely brutal in that you need to have sailing and jarring your own jam on the 'interests' section of your resume. Let's be real. These biglaw firms have been behind every major legal fuck up from Watergate (https://www.landmarkcases.org/united-states-v-nixon/the-legacy-of-watergate-rethinking-legal-ethics https://www.landmarkcases.org/united-states-v-nixon/the-lega...) to the financial collapse (https://www.dcbar.org/bar-resources/publications/washington-lawyer/articles/january-2010-financial-crisis.cfm https://www.dcbar.org/bar-resources/publications/washington-...). There are a fuckload of dartmouth lacrosse players who put up with the "absolutely brutal" hours, but they're still dartmouth lacrosse players.
- nowayjosetimes2 7y ago
  work for non-big law, went to a t3. people who listen to junk like this see that and their brains scramble. some of us don't want to work with chuds.

akdas 7y ago

> when I hire someone who isn’t fresh out of college, I only care about experience / interview skills / references If everyone who _did_ hire fresh college grads gave preference only to those coming from exclusive schools, only those from exclusive schools end up with the experience, interview skills and references you look for. In this way, exclusivity perpetuates itself. The best way to _actually_ focus on hiring for skill? Find those who haven't been given a chance before, such as not having attended a top-name school and subsequently didn't end up at top-name firms, then invest in them. It's more expensive to do, but a lot of the top talent doesn't have the experience, interview skills and references you may be looking for.

dllthomas 7y ago
> If everyone who _did_ hire fresh college grads gave preference only to those coming from exclusive schools, only those from exclusive schools end up with the experience, interview skills and references you look for. In this way, exclusivity perpetuates itself. That does seem to apply for experience and references. If interview skills benefit from practice, I think it works the other way there.
- akdas 7y ago
  That's a good point, and I'm sure that's true for many people. Interestingly, for me personally, my interview skills increased as a result of interviewing others, as I understood what interviewers were looking for. The big problem is that interviewers typically don't provide feedback to those who fail the interview. So even that part can have some component of perpetuated exclusivity.

solidsnack9000 7y ago

The elite is small. The companies engaging in practices like only hiring from Stanford CS, only hiring from Berkeley, and only hiring one ethnic group (!) from Stanford are engaging in self-limiting behaviour, as far as head count goes; but their command of capital is high.

peferron 7y ago
Which companies are you talking about?
- mdorazio 7y ago
  Can't speak for the parent comment, but for example back when I was in college doing recruiting, the big management consulting firms only recruited at and hired from specific schools (not mine).
nickpsecurity 7y ago
Very well said. They know it, too, like the leaked memos show: https://politicalgates.blogspot.com/2011/12/citigroup-plutonomy-memos-two-bombshell.html https://politicalgates.blogspot.com/2011/12/citigroup-pluton... The greatest threat identified was "equal voting power with the rich." Actually, more given they're 99% versus 1%. The threat is so great that those with capital spend absolutely enormous amounts of money on media convincing people to vote for candidates that are great for the rich but do a tiny thing here and there for everyone else. Also, that the activities facilitating the rich will get them there, too. It's working so far... Similar kind of crap with these "elite" schools and hiring strategies.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

Swizec 7y ago

My fav principle to use when thinking about that stuff goes like this: "School only matters if you ain't got nothing better to show"

akhilcacharya 7y ago
To be clear most new grads and people seeking internships..don’t. Even getting into Hackathons was very difficult when I was in undergrad (right around peak Hackathon in 2014/2015). Generally the people that got in and got good internships were the ones that already went to top schools. And all of that is before the interview prep training, the fact that 50% of coding/algorithmic interviews are just proxies for either raw IQ or remembering the problem, etc etc.
- Swizec 7y ago
  Totally agree. most new grads don't have anything better to show than their diploma and their grades. But some do. Many have open source projects or contributions, some have worked summer programming jobs, some may have even started startups. All of that is better than just schoolwork. And if you're still being asked where you graduated from 5+ years into your career ... something might be wrong. Have you really nothing better to show?
  - akdas 7y ago
    > And if you're still being asked where you graduated from 5+ years into your career ... something might be wrong. Have you really nothing better to show? Sometimes, the fact that someone didn't go to a top-name school limited their choices. If they went to local state school far from Silicon Valley, and they didn't have money to move to the Silicon Valley right away, they may have worked at small, non-engineering-focused companies. So yeah, maybe they're really capable, but 5+ years into their careers, they haven't had the chance to demonstrate it yet.