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> Does industrial progress need to be sacrificed to prevent climate change? How can you even ask such a question with a straight face? What benefit is there fr

> Does industrial progress need to be sacrificed to prevent climate change? How can you even ask such a question with a straight face? What benefit is there from a couple of additional points of GDP if we destroy our habitat? The problem with all of the questions you raise is I have never seen anybody asking them in good faith. They are used purely to derail discussion or any active problems or solutions. A generous explanation would be that since the two sides can't agree that there is a problem to begin with, there can be no logical debate about the right way to SOLVE it. As such, anyone who is asking these questions never offers ALTERNATIVES - all they offer is DOING NOTHING. Which, given the stakes involved, is not passive, but an active impediment to moving forward. > How much governmental intervention is helpful? Private industry never moves in a direction that compromises profits without government intervention. That is inherent in free market capitalism, and has been demonstrated again and again worldwide. > How accurate are predictions of what is coming? Oh no, what if we improve our planet and habitat and keep our ecosystem and food production environments stable for nothing? > What is the most efficient way to prevent climate change and how effective will those actions be? One side offers some ideas. The other offers doing nothing. There is no disagreement here either, just good faith and bad. > There is no correct path forward. I'll finally agree with you there. I sincerely hope there will be future civilizations to look back on the historical record of the time and shake their heads in amazement at our folly, because that is not a guaranteed outcome.

avmich 7y ago
I agree with what you say; I think those downvoting don't understand important things. My take on these questions: > How much governmental intervention is helpful? Climate crisis is similar to slowly unfolding war with a powerful, but slow adversary. A world war. So our good experiences and lessons from how to win a war could be helpful, including questions regarding government. How much government intervention is helpful in WWII? > How accurate are predictions of what is coming? Nice question, but sort of beside the point. Can be answered, but it leads away from the problem. Suppose our predictions are not too accurate. Given the stakes, we still have to do a lot of efforts, since in case we overestimated the problem the downside isn't big - comparing to potential downside of doing nothing. The truth is that we don't really know the certainty of predictions. Last time I've heard the climatologists were trying to be conservative - they reported about problems they were fairly sure to see, to avoid being called alarmists. Now we see that predictions were rather rosy comparing to actual - more grim - situation. But that's what I've heard. > What is the most efficient way to prevent climate change and how effective will those actions be? Start running right now. Otherwise - imagine similar question asked to JFK, when he announced the Moon race. How long would you think people can debate rather silly and theoretical topic at the time of flying to the Moon? Given that USSR wasn't that keen to fly there in the first place, there were plenty of reasons to be reasonable and save a lot of efforts and money. Didn't USA have better things to do? We can debate about effectiveness, but only if we're already running. Before that we first need to start running, however counterintuitive it could sound.
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avmich 7y ago

I agree with what you say; I think those downvoting don't understand important things. My take on these questions: > How much governmental intervention is helpful? Climate crisis is similar to slowly unfolding war with a powerful, but slow adversary. A world war. So our good experiences and lessons from how to win a war could be helpful, including questions regarding government. How much government intervention is helpful in WWII? > How accurate are predictions of what is coming? Nice question, but sort of beside the point. Can be answered, but it leads away from the problem. Suppose our predictions are not too accurate. Given the stakes, we still have to do a lot of efforts, since in case we overestimated the problem the downside isn't big - comparing to potential downside of doing nothing. The truth is that we don't really know the certainty of predictions. Last time I've heard the climatologists were trying to be conservative - they reported about problems they were fairly sure to see, to avoid being called alarmists. Now we see that predictions were rather rosy comparing to actual - more grim - situation. But that's what I've heard. > What is the most efficient way to prevent climate change and how effective will those actions be? Start running right now. Otherwise - imagine similar question asked to JFK, when he announced the Moon race. How long would you think people can debate rather silly and theoretical topic at the time of flying to the Moon? Given that USSR wasn't that keen to fly there in the first place, there were plenty of reasons to be reasonable and save a lot of efforts and money. Didn't USA have better things to do? We can debate about effectiveness, but only if we're already running. Before that we first need to start running, however counterintuitive it could sound.

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